Senator AYRES (New South Wales—Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science) (14:37): There's some of this territory, I think, that Senator Canavan and I agree upon, and some that we don't. It's certainly the case that electricity prices, electricity supply, gas supply and gas prices are fundamental questions for Australian industry. Australian industry needs affordable electricity, and it needs affordable gas. That is why this government and the announcements that have been made in relation to the reviews of the national electricity market, reviews in terms of the gas market—those reviews have been undertaken. And, as you would imagine, I'm very engaged with industry about that important work because it is important work. One message that is really clear coming back from Australian industry—heavy industry, blue-collar industry, manufacturing sector, future industrial investors who want to invest in, for example iron production or critical minerals production in Australia and the current industrial production sector—is that what they want is policy certainty. What they want is a policy framework that delivers more investment in electricity. Senator Cash: I have a point of order in relation to relevance. The question was about the impact of higher electricity prices on this government and how many jobs have been lost as a result. Senator Wong: On the point of order, I submit that Senator Ayres was entirely relevant to a question that deals with the impact of electricity on the economy and industries. The PRESIDENT: Senator Ayres, I will draw you to the first part of Senator Canavan's question, which went to gas and electricity prices. Senator AYRES: It certainly did, and the one thing that would guarantee a bin fire, in terms of gas and electricity prices, would be the approach urged by those opposite, and the contest—if only we could provide energy in Australia from the hot waffle that's been emerging from the bitter contest for control of the Liberal and National parties over there. We saw the outcome of that—less electricity, less gas. The PRESIDENT: Senator Canavan, first supplementary?