Senator LIDDLE (South Australia) (14:15): Thank you, Minister Wong. Of course we need to do better. Why does this government continue to talk about listening and reform when the reality is that, under Labor, since 2022, incarceration rates are rising—up 3.5 per cent; Indigenous suicide rates are worsening—up 9.4 per cent; and youth detention is up 11 per cent? Isn't this more proof that Labor governs with slogans, not substance?