Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:54): I'm sure that someone will provide me with precise details of the figures soon, but what I would say to you, Senator, is that, when you were in government— Opposition senators interjecting— Senator WONG: I am providing an answer to a question about inflation. I know those opposite find it hard to recognise some of the laws of economics. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie? Senator McKenzie: On relevance—and to assist with the paper flurry—my question wasn't about inflation; it was actually about mortgage payment increases. The PRESIDENT: The minister understood your question because she said she would get you that information, so I will call her to continue with the response, and I will listen carefully. Senator Ayres interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Ayres, I've called you about four times in about five minutes. Senator WONG: Senator McKenzie says she's not interested in inflation. I thought that was the basis of her— Senator McKenzie: President, I would ask you to request Senator Wong to withdraw that comment, please. Senator WONG: As you know— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie, resume your seat. Senator Ruston, resume your seat; I will come back to you. Senator McKenzie, you made a reference to inflation. Senator McKenzie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: You're not in an argument with me. When you rose about your point of order, you spoke about inflation. Senator McKenzie interjecting— The PRESIDENT: I am happy to review the tape, but I clearly heard that. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I'm not debating with a bunch of people on the front bench. Senator WONG: As always, President, I'm happy to withdraw, and I withdraw. But the point I was making to you, Senator, is that—am I still on the point of order? I can respond in the answer to the question. The PRESIDENT: Senator Ruston on a point of order? Senator WONG: I've just withdrawn. Senator Ruston: My point of order isn't related to your point of order. My point of order is related to the adverse reflection that one of the ministers on the front bench made in relation to Senator McKenzie, which was completely uncalled for and was an adverse reflection on her. A government senator interjecting— Senator Ruston: It was nothing to do with a long lunch. It was actually a personal comment about Senator McKenzie, and I think Senator Ayres knows what I'm talking about. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order across the chamber! Senator McGrath, I have called order. As you should know by now, I take personal reflections very seriously and I always ask senators to withdraw. I didn't hear the comment, but, Senator Ruston, it is not helpful to me to say 'a minister' or 'one of the ministers'. I'm happy to ask ministers— Senator Ruston interjecting— The PRESIDENT: No, Senator Ruston, please resume your seat. Senator McGrath interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator McGrath, I've just finished telling the chamber that I take points of order seriously, and you made a joke about it. I am going to ask, if there was an adverse comment on the front bench, for that senator to withdraw and to withdraw in a proper spirit. Senator Ayres: I'm now aware of it because Senator Ruston mouthed it to me, and I withdraw it. Senator WONG: Can I just be clear that I understood Senator McKenzie was saying that an answer in relation to inflation was not relevant to an answer about mortgage rates. Senator Cash interjecting— Senator WONG: Exactly. My point is that inflation is the key thing that governments can do in relation to mortgage rates, Senator. The independent Reserve Bank—which should be independent, despite what Mr Dutton might have said—sets mortgage rates and sets the cash rate. Governments can do what we can to reduce inflation. Inflation under us has a two in front of it; inflation under you has a six in front of it. I would say to you, respectfully, President, that on a question about mortgage rates, particularly given that it is not governments which set mortgage rates but the Reserve Bank, it is quite relevant to talk about inflation. If the opposition want to say that it's not relevant to talk about inflation, they are demonstrating, with respect, the same economic incompetence that the nuclear fantasy policy demonstrates. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, first supplementary?