Senator GALLAGHER (Australian Capital Territory—Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Finance, Minister for Women, Manager of Government Business in the Senate and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (14:44): Well, in a sense, when public hospitals do engage the private hospitals, it's usually done on a model like that of Veterans' Affairs, so it's usually for the national efficient price of that particular procedure. That underpins the arrangement. So I think that largely exists now. I think it really is a matter of what the public hospital system can afford. Obviously they are paying for all their operating theatres and their staff. They are dealing with all the emergency work that comes in as well as the elective work. Something the private system can offer is that they are not constrained by emergency work. But it really comes down to what's affordable and how you manage all the work that's required. But definitely utilising the private system to help is part of the solution in the longer term, as is keeping people out of hospital and using new technology to make sure people don't have to undergo operations as well.