Senator GALLAGHER (Australian Capital Territory—Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Finance, Minister for Women, Manager of Government Business in the Senate and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (14:00): It is interesting that I should get a question on costs from the opposition—the nerve of these people! They announce a big energy policy, supposedly—a scam—and I don't think it actually stands up to the test of policy. Does it have any costs attached to it at all? No. Do they know how they'll roll it out? No. Senator Cash interjecting— Senator McKenzie: But can you answer it? The PRESIDENT: Senator Cash and Senator McKenzie! Senator GALLAGHER: Does anyone seem to agree with it? No, not many. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator Watt interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt! Order across the chamber! Senators, we are just a few minutes into question time. I have Senator Birmingham on his feet on a point of order, and I had to draw your attention to order on three or four occasions. Senator Birmingham: President, Senator Cadell's question was quite specific, and, whilst a degree of latitude may be given to ministers to talk about other matters or indeed opposition policies, the minister was asked about government costings. This is the finance minister, and I ask you to, now more than a quarter of the way into the time allowed, draw her to the question asked by Senator Cadell. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will draw the minister back to the question. I will also make the point that I expect the minister to be heard in silence. Senator GALLAGHER: I can understand that Senator Birmingham's a bit sensitive about the issue of costs. I imagine that, as a former finance minister, he must find it quite difficult to be a member of a party that launches a policy without any costings at all. I can assure the opposition that the price of continuing to proceed with renewable energy—which, as everyone in this place knows and accepts, is the cheapest form of energy—and of our continued steady rollout of renewables with firming capacity will be a lot less than whatever number you lot come up with whenever you get around to it. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Order! I've already had to draw the Senate back to order, particularly on my left. I asked for silence, and that is what I expect. Minister Gallagher, did you have anything further to add? Senator GALLAGHER: I will add that the figure that's being peddled by those opposite, including by the Leader of the Opposition, of $1.5 trillion—they can come up with a figure for something that's not their policy, but they can't come up with a figure for theirs—is completely false. You are not telling the truth. And I would refer those opposite to the Integrated System Plan. The ISP has looked at the cost of rolling out our plan to 2050 and has come out with a figure of $121 billion. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cadell, a first supplementary?