Senator FARRELL (South Australia—Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:42): Thank you, Senator McGrath, for your question. This government understands the pressure that ordinary working Australians are under in terms of their mortgage, and that's especially so since the decision of the independent Reserve Bank to increase interest rates by 25 basis points yesterday. What this government is trying to do is to help those people out by putting downward pressure on interest rates. I can only say it so many times, Senator McGrath, but the reality is that the fact that we were able to deliver the first budget surplus in 15 years is one of the ways in which we are trying to help— The PRESIDENT: Minister Farrell, resume your seat. Senator McGrath, a point of order? Senator McGrath: It's on direct relevance. The question was very specifically about how the Albanese Labor government defines mortgage stress. The minister has not gone anywhere near the definition of mortgage stress. I'd ask you to draw him back to the question. The PRESIDENT: I will draw the minister to the question. Thank you, Senator McGrath. Senator FARRELL: Well, I will go there, because we do understand that Australians have— Senator Ruston interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Ruston, those constant interjections are disorderly. I just had Senator McGrath on his feet asking me to direct the minister to the question, which I did do. But you know that your interjections can also be something the minister responds to. So you can't have it both ways, and I've asked you to discontinue interjecting. Senator Birmingham: She's giving you some time, Don! Senator FARRELL: With all due respect, Senator Birmingham, I don't need time. I understand— Senator Cash: What percentage of your income to do you spend on your mortgage? Senator FARRELL: You keep— Senator Cash interjecting— Senator FARRELL: I do answer your questions. You may not like the way I answer your questions. The PRESIDENT: Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Order across the chamber! Senator Cash interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cash, I just called order. That includes you. Senator Birmingham, on a point of order? Senator Birmingham: I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. Yes, interjections may occur in the chamber. I, as a minister, answered plenty of questions with interjections occurring across the chamber. You still answer the question. If it would help the minister, perhaps he can read the highlighted words from Wayne Swan, 'Mortgage stress is when household are paying more than 30 per cent of their income.' Try reading it out, Don. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Birmingham, stunts are also out of order. I have directed the minister to the question. Senator Birmingham, I'm responding to your point of order. What you did as a minister was your choice. If there are interjections, ministers can choose to ignore them, as obviously you did, or they can choose to answer them. The chamber nevertheless should be listening in silence. Senator O'Neill. Senator O'Neill: President, just in light of the way in which the Senate has— The PRESIDENT: Senator, why are you on your feet? Senator O'Neill: I rise on a point of order because there's been debate about standards today. My point of order goes to the standard of making a speech about standards and then physically throwing a document across the table. It's inappropriate. The senator should apologise. The PRESIDENT: Order across the chamber! Senator O'Neill, you are not running this chamber; I am. I have addressed that issue. There was not a point of order there. I'm going back to Senator Farrell and ask him to direct his answer to the question. Senator FARRELL: If you want to answer your own questions then why bother to ask me the questions? The PRESIDENT: Senator McGrath, a first supplementary?