Senator McKENZIE (Victoria—Minister for Emergency Management and National Recovery and Resilience, Minister for Regionalisation, Regional Communications and Regional Education and Leader of The Nationals in the Senate) (14:04): Talking about resignations over climate change policy—and going to what Nationals may or may not do is a hypothetical question—I'll tell you who has actually resigned over climate change policy, and that is Joel Fitzgibbon. He's a great loss to the Hunter, a great loss to those who care about mining jobs in this country and a great loss to the National—no, the Labor Party. He should be a National Party MP, but he's a great loss to the Labor Party. The PRESIDENT: Senator Keneally, on a point of order? Senator Keneally: The point of order is direct relevance. The minister is straying into areas that have nothing to do with the question. It was specifically about the National Party and comments about National Party resignations made by a member of the National Party. The PRESIDENT: Senator Keneally, the minister was addressing the issue of resignations over climate policy. I cannot direct the minister how to answer a question. I have allowed you to draw the minister's attention back to the question. Minister, you have the call. Senator McKENZIE: Thank you, Mr President. Talking about resignations of candidates and MPs: it was the candidate for Fowler, I think, who pulled out of the preselection race— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, do you have a point of order? Senator Wong: The point of order is direct relevance. The use of a verb doesn't mean that anything associated, potentially, with the verb is directly relevant. The former President talked about glancing references to the opposition; we understand that's part of the interplay of question time. But the minister was asked about Nationals resigning. Senator Canavan interjecting— Senator Wong: That is the question. We'd ask her to be directly relevant. I'm happy to move leave for Senator Canavan to speak for two minutes. I'm happy to give him leave. If the government will give him leave, we will give him leave. The PRESIDENT: Senator Canavan, is this on the point of order? Senator Canavan: The question was clearly about resignations. Senator Keneally has great experience here in forcing the resignation of a Labor candidate for the lower house, so this is directly relevant to the questioner's experience. The PRESIDENT: I'm listening carefully to the minister's answer. Senator Wong, you have had the chance, again, to draw the minister's attention back to the question. I cannot direct the minister how to answer the question. She was dealing with matters raised within the question. Senator Wong: I have a submission, Mr President. With respect, I'd ask you, post question time, to take advice from the Clerk and look at the Hansard. We are not asking you to direct her how to answer the question. We are asking you to make a ruling to uphold the standing orders as to direct relevance. I'll put it to you—and I'd ask you to get advice and consider the Hansard—that a question which goes to Nationals resigning, which is what Senator Canavan put on the public record and which is an appropriate question to the Deputy Prime Minister's representative, cannot possibly be answered in a directly relevant way by reference to an entirely different matter. Senator Birmingham: Mr President, in considering the matters that Senator Wong has raised, I would draw to your attention the fact that Senator McKenzie very clearly went specifically to matters of National Party ministers and their current representation in the current ministerial arrangements in the very first part of her response. Having addressed directly the direct question asked, it is entirely appropriate for a minister to be able to give context, including historical context, in relation to such answers that have been given. It is entirely appropriate for a minister to be able to elaborate on a point that they're making, and, in elaborating, that may mean that they are adding further context and information to what they have provided in terms of a direct response to the question that was asked. The PRESIDENT: I have ruled on the point of order. I will come back to the chamber, and I will seek further information on this particular issue and on previous rulings that have been made. My ruling, however, stands. Minister McKenzie, did you wish to continue? Senator McKENZIE: I was going to put on the record that Joel Fitzgibbon, a resigning member of the Labor Party, resigned from the shadow executive of the Labor Party. Specifically, he resigned around climate policy. He said, 'The Labor Party has not made one— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKenzie, resume your seat.