Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business) (14:46): As Senator Watt would know, the coalition government has announced a comprehensive package—in particular in relation to small businesses. What I can confirm for the Senate is the following. As you would be aware, Mr President, the states—the state Labor governments in Queensland and Victoria, and the coalition governments in New South Wales and South Australia—are actually responsible for the administration of both the grants and the loans. In relation to New South Wales, I am advised that in relation to the small-business grants of up to $50,000 for businesses that are directly affected by the fires there have been 252— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Watt on a point of order. Senator Watt: A point of order on relevance. The minister is quoting figures about grants. My question was about loans. In fact, I have only asked something that the Prime Minister confirmed yesterday. She should be on top of this. The PRESIDENT: I was listening carefully to the minister— Honourable senators interjecting — The PRESIDENT: Order! I will rule on the point of order when there is silence! I was listening very carefully to the minister. I didn't catch the reference you referred to. Immediately prior to that, the minister was talking about the grants program and its administration, which I do consider to be directly relevant. I am listening carefully, because it was a specific question. Senator Cash. Senator CASH: In relation to the grants, 252 applications have been received and 46 grants paid out, worth over $690,000. And the average grant requested is just under $30,000. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong on a point of order. Senator Wong: Yes, on direct relevance. We only asked about the confirmation of one concessional loan across the country for small business. We asked the minister to confirm and, as Senator Watt, I think courteously, indicated, it is the figure the Prime Minister confirmed yesterday. The PRESIDENT: On the point of direct relevance: the minister can be directly relevant to the question by talking about the concessional loans scheme and its administration, as she was earlier. But I do take the point that the grant scheme was not in the question. I remind senators that I cannot instruct a minister how to answer the question. Senator Cash. Senator CASH: Thank you, Mr President. In relation to the loans, senators will be aware that what the government has done is to allow access to loans of up to half a million dollars. They are being administered through the states. I can advise that in relation to New South Wales the loans scheme opened on 3 February 2020. Forty-two applications have been received and are currently under review, and the value of loans requested is around $3,300,000. In relation to Queensland, the concessional loans opened on 3 February 2020— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, on direct relevance. Senator Watt: On direct relevance: the question is about the approval of loans, not applications received, not where they're at—approval of loans. The PRESIDENT: I grant some latitude to people restating the question. My previous ruling was that the minister can be directly relevant by talking about the specific scheme that you referenced. You are seeking to order me how to direct a minister to answer a question, which is not appropriate for me to do. There is an opportunity after question time to debate the merits of answers. Senator Cash. Senator CASH: In relation to Queensland, concessional loans opened on 3 February 2020. Two applications have been received and one has been approved. The South Australian government have activated the scheme. They have currently got 60 expressions of interest. And guidelines are currently being considered by Victoria and the ACT. Perhaps you could speak to those Labor governments, Senator Watt, and advise them that, yes, they can work with the Commonwealth government because they are the ones that need to activate the scheme. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, a supplementary question?