Senator KIM CARR (Victoria) (14:45): I thank the minister for his answer. I'm just wondering why the letter that was received by the President from the Leader of the Government in the Senate didn't refer to this grant and the circumstances around the matter that he's just raised. Was there any advice provided to the leader of the government on these matters before that letter was sent? Senator Cormann: On a point of order, the minister is being misled. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: I do grant some discretion to the leaders of both parties. I'll hear the point of order he's making. He's making a point of order. Senator Wong: He's not making a point of order. He said, 'On the point of order.' That was a question. The PRESIDENT: No, Senator Cormann is taking a point of order. Senator Cormann: I'm taking a point of order. The question yesterday was about a grant that was made, whereas the question today is in relation to a grant that was not made. That is an important distinction, and I think Senator Carr is seeking to confuse the Senate. The PRESIDENT: Senator Cormann, with respect, that is a point of debate. Part of Senator Carr's question did ask the minister representing the minister: was any advice provided? The question was in order, so I'll call Senator Canavan.