Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Leader of the Government in the Senate, Minister for Finance, Special Minister of State and Vice-President of the Executive Council) (14:05): The senator asked me for a guarantee. I'll tell you what I can guarantee. What I can guarantee is that if we pass those business tax cuts in full the people who will be better off are Australian working families. What I can also guarantee is that if we don't pass them the people who will be worse off are Australia's working families. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong on a point of order. Senator Wong: Direct relevance: the minister was asked to guarantee one thing, and that is whether the banks will be better off under his policy or not. I understand that he's avoiding the question, but that was the question. The PRESIDENT: You've reminded Senator Cormann of the question, Senator Wong. Senator Cormann is being directly relevant to the question as it was put. Senator CORMANN: What I can guarantee you is that if we continue to put Australia's big businesses at a competitive disadvantage it will cost investment and it will cost jobs. Senator Wong seems to think that the banks are something abstract out there that don't have any relevance to our economy. The truth is that stronger and more profitable banks are important for small and medium-size businesses operating in our economy. It's important for shareholders. It's important for self-funded retirees. Every self-funded retiree will have a large chunk of their retirement savings invested in banks, because they provide a reliable income stream for self-funded retirees—something that Labor doesn't understand. (Time expired)