Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women) (14:43): Again, Senator Pratt, I remind you that it is longstanding practice for Commonwealth statutory office holders and employees, regardless of who is in government, to be indemnified for the costs of defending legal proceedings brought against them. In relation to current legal proceedings, for example, you would be aware that there are current legal proceedings in relation to the former Gillard government's live cattle trade debacle. The PRESIDENT: A point of order, Senator Wong. Senator Wong: The question was very precise, Mr President, bearing in mind your advice from the chair. It was: 'Can the minister confirm that the cost to taxpayers could have been substantially reduced had Mr Hadgkiss admitted his behaviour was illegal 13 months earlier?' The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. I remind the minister of the question. Senator CASH: Thank you very much. As I stated in relation to it, regardless of which government is in office, there are certain longstanding practices that are adhered to. For example, in relation to former minister Joe Ludwig, the Australian taxpayer is still paying the legal fees of the former agriculture minister in terms of the litigation that has been brought against him. To date the government has had to pay more than $800,000— The PRESIDENT: Order, Minister. A point of order, Senator Wong. Senator Wong: What an abuse of the Senate that she's able to give quantum—sorry; the minister— Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my right. Senator WONG: can give quantum on one thing but not the thing about which she's being asked. This is on direct relevance. There was one question asked. The minister's avoiding the question. If she wants to go on a political diatribe, she can do it in taking note. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Wong. Senator Brandis, on the point of order? Senator Brandis: On the point of order: the minister made it perfectly clear that the amount is not settled. She is being directly responsive to the question. The PRESIDENT: The minister has three seconds in which to conclude her answer. I'll remind the minister again of the question and invite the minister to conclude her answer. Senator CASH: Well, Mr Hadgkiss pleaded to the actual court— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Pratt, a final supplementary question.