Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Education and Training) (14:52): I thank the senator for her question. The government considered many things during the discussions about our child-care reforms. We have considered well and truly the interests of hardworking Australian families, which is why we are increasing the amount of support that the lowest income Australian families receive from around 72 per cent, as I have told the Senate, to 85 per cent. We have considered absolutely the priority of families who do not meet the activity test—and let us remember that the activity test requires families to only work, study or volunteer for four hours per week; it is a very light touch family activity test—and are on a very low income, below $65,000. The legislation that has been presented to the parliament and has been considered by the parliament through three different Senate inquiries proposes access to 24 hours per fortnight of care even for those families not meeting the activity test but below that threshold as part of the safety net. It is the government's position and belief that that can adequately deliver the two sessions of care per week that are recommended for children in those circumstances. In the end six-hour sessions are analogous to a school day. They are the types of sessions that are provided in a preschool environment, if not even longer. They are the types of sessions we see in countries like New Zealand as part of their model. There are those who might wish to lobby, for their own business or commercial reasons, for longer hours, even though in many instances we do not have children sitting there during those hours. We think it is appropriate that taxpayers' money is targeted for effective early learning opportunities in care sessions that will actually be effectively utilised. Senator Bernardi: Mr President, I have a point of order. In standing order 73(1)(k) the rules for questions state in that questions shall not refer to debates in the current session. I think Senator Gallagher has referred to a debate in the current session. The PRESIDENT: It is in the current session. I did discuss it with the Clerk a little bit earlier. Providing we do not go directly to the debate and the minister in answering the question does not directly engage in the debate before the Senate it is allowable. I was listening very carefully. There was a very similar question earlier, which again I listened to very carefully. The question is in order. The minister has been in order. Thank you for drawing that to my attention, Senator Bernardi. It is something I am aware of and I will be listening to the answer, as I always do. Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question.