Birmingham, Sen Simon

Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Education and Training) (14:40): Indeed, I stand by that answer. I also went on, as I recall, in that answer to indicate that I had met as then Assistant Minister for Education and Training, with responsibility for vocational education, with all of the entities in question. However, the program in question under which such grants were provided was a program that was not established until after I had ceased to be the Assistant Minister for Education and Training. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on both sides. Senator Farrell.