Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Minister for Finance, Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate and Special Minister of State) (14:05): What I know is that this is a measure which will permanently add one per cent to the size of the economy, will help to increase the number of jobs and help us increase the level of real wages across Australia. This is a measure which is costed, consistent with requirements in the Charter of Budget Honesty, over the four-year forward estimates. What we do know, of course, is that Labor wants to impose $100 billion in additional taxes over the next decade. You want to spend it all and more. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Pause the clock. Minister— Senator CORMANN: That is, of course, the worst thing that you could possibly do to the Australian economy as we are working on a transition from resource investment driven growth to broader drivers of growth. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Minister— Senator CORMANN: Our plan is to tax better without increasing taxes on the economy. Your plan is to tax— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Minister Cormann, please resume your seat. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senators on my left, you have one of your colleagues on his feet. I presume it is to take a point of order. Senator Kim Carr: My point of order is on relevance, Mr President. The minister has been asked a direct question three times now: what is the cost of the 10-year enterprise tax plan? Does he know? He has not been able to answer it. Would you please direct him to actually attend to the question that has been asked. The PRESIDENT: The minister is answering the question. He is responding to the question and he has been asked two parts to the question. Senator CORMANN: We know that the Labor Party is into 10-year costings to hide their budget black holes over the short term. In an attempt to hide their budget black holes over the short term—we know that the Labor Party has a $20-billion black hole in their costings on the tobacco excise. We have costed this measure consistent with the usual practice and the usual approach under the Charter of Budget Honesty. The cost over the four-year estimate is $2.7 billion— (Time expired)