Mr SWAN (Lilley—Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer) (14:54): There is no secret about net debt. Net interest payments are $5.5 billion in 2011-12. There is no secret about that at all. And net debt is 7.2 per cent—that is, $106 billion. Opposition members interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order! Mr SWAN: It is truly amazing that those opposite would carry on like this when we have a net debt level which is the envy of the developed world. The reason we have that net debt level is that we moved to support our economy during the global recession, which saved the jobs of hundreds of thousands of Australians and kept open the doors of tens of thousands of small businesses. This was a very important support— Mrs Bronwyn Bishop: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on relevance. In the new period of the new paradigm answers, when he must be directly relevant—in addition to the requirement within the Practice that question time be a time for eliciting information—would the Treasurer please answer the question as it was asked. The SPEAKER: The member for Mackellar will resume her seat. I think we are now in the older period of the new paradigm. I think that if people were quiet and listened they might get information that they are actually seeking, but they do not hear it because they are not listening. The Treasurer has the call; he will respond to the question. Mr SWAN: I would like to quote the credit rating agency Moody's. Moody's said about debt: Moody's notes that Australian government debt remains among the lowest of all AAA-rated governments. Of course that is the case. We have one of the best positions in the advanced world, and one of the reasons it is that low is that we moved to support our economy at a time of threat. Those opposite want to continue to pretend that the global financial crisis did not happen, that a global recession did not happen and that it did not wash through or touch our economy. It did, and it had a dramatic impact on revenues and it would have had a dramatic impact on employment if they had had their way. We moved to support our economy. We took on a modest level of debt to keep Australians in work and to keep the doors of business open, and Australia is all the better for it. We will come back to surplus in 2012-13. We will build surpluses, we will pay down debt and we will do that with a really healthy, strongly growing economy, which would not be the case if those vandals over there had been in charge.