Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Defence) (14:14): There is nothing more directly relevant to the question asked by Senator Gallacher than the defence white paper, the integrated investment program and the defence industry policy statement. Senator Kim Carr: Mr President, on a point of order on direct relevance, this minister has been asked how many submarines were requested for tender, was asked if it was any less than 12 and—a third question—three times has been asked how the government will now keep its promise on 12 submarines, not eight—because that is what the tenderers were asked to bid on, weren't they, Minister? The PRESIDENT: Order! You are debating it now, Senator Carr. Minister, on the point of order? Senator PAYNE: No, I was going to continue my answer. The PRESIDENT: Just a moment. I have to rule on the point of order. Thank you, Minister. We are only dealing with the final supplementary question, Senator Carr. The question was: will the Liberal government keep its election promise to build 12 submarines? That was the question. I remind the minister of the question and advise her she has 14 seconds in which to answer. Senator PAYNE: For the benefit of those opposite, let me be very clear: the number of submarines, the build, will be addressed in the Defence white paper, in the integrated investment program and in the Defence Industry Policy Statement.