Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Defence) (14:12): I would encourage Senator Gallacher to have a constructive conversation with his colleague Senator Conroy, the shadow minister for defence, who, when we have had the opportunity to discuss the development of the white paper, the IIP, the defence industry policy statement and the competitive evaluation process, indicated that the government should take the appropriate time— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a point of order on direct relevance. I am sure the minister is very interested in what Senator Conroy has to say but the question was very specific: will the Liberal government keep its election promise and build 12 future submarines in my home state of South Australia? I request that she come to the question. The PRESIDENT: Order on my right? Senator Wong: Just answer the question. The PRESIDENT: On the point of order, Senator Wong, I will remind the minister of the question. Minister. Senator PAYNE: Thank you very much. If I had delivered a white paper in 2009 and 2013 that was completely uncosted and completely undeliverable, I would be embarrassed too. If I had not placed an order for one single naval vessel in six years, I would be embarrassed too. I can understand— The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Wong: Mr President, I rise on a point of order—again, it is direct relevance. What is embarrassing is a minister refusing to answer the question. Answer the question. Senator Cormann: Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Payne was clearly directly relevant to the question. She was providing directly relevant context in response to the question that was asked. Senator Conroy: Mr President, on the point of order: the minister is actually quoting directly from Tony Abbott's speaking points from prior to the change in prime ministership. She is not remotely relevant to the question she has now been asked three times. The PRESIDENT: Thank you. You are starting to debate it, Senator Conroy. Senator Conroy: I ask you bring her back to the question. The PRESIDENT: Order! I do not need any further assistance with this point of order. I will remind the minister of the question. The minister has 23 seconds in which to answer the question.