Senator KIM CARR (Victoria) (14:54): My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. Today's Australian Financial Review quotes the President of the Business Council, Catherine Livingstone, warning that the debate on innovation has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Does the minister agree with Mr Livingstone's proposition that innovation is about transforming the economy rather than sloganeering and political gamesmanship such as we have seen over the funding of NCRIS?