Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Minister for Finance and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:32): I am wondering whether Senator Lines actually knows what she has been asked to ask here in Senate question time. The truth is— The PRESIDENT: Order! Pause the clock. Senator Moore, on a point of order? Senator Moore: Mr President, I raise a point of order on direct relevance. I know it is very early in the answer time, but the start did not give me any confidence that the minister was going to go anywhere near the answer. The PRESIDENT: Senator Moore, that is not a point of order because it is not confidence we are looking for. We are looking for answers. We have to be very fair to the minister. He had not even commenced, basically. Minister, you are in order. Senator CORMANN: Thank you very much, Mr President. Again, the chutzpah! At the time of the last election we had Labor locking Australia into a spending growth trajectory, particularly in the period beyond the published forward estimates, which we are working to bring back. Yet here they are saying that we are spending too much. Well, help us to pass some of the savings that you are blocking. Let me say to you, very slowly: over the forward estimates spending as a share of GDP is forecast to come down, over time, from 25.9 per cent to about 25.3 per cent at the end of the forward estimates. Government net debt is expected to peak next year before it comes down as a share of GDP. That is as a result of the efforts that we have made, not helped by the Labor Party. When we have been working to fix your mess, you have been boycotting us every step of the way. The PRESIDENT: Pause the clock. Senator Moore, on a point of order? Senator Moore: Mr President, I raise a point of order on direct relevance. My confidence was not helped. There was a simple question. Can the minister actually say whether gross debt has increased by more than $100 billion since the finance minister took office? That was very direct, and we have not had an answer to that question yet. The PRESIDENT: I will remind the minister of the question. He has five seconds in which to answer. Senator CORMANN: Gross debt has increased by less than it would have under Labor and net debt, which is actually what matters, is expected to come down. (Time expired)