Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:49): I know that the senator wants to hold hearings with government officials that go on for hours, and then just ignore everything they have ever said to him. The Chief of Navy, the head of the Capability Group, the Chief Submariner and the head of the DMO all told you last night— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron. Senator JOHNSTON: A number of officials told you last night that the government is confronted with a capability gap caused by you, because you did nothing for five years. There is no contract, no commitment and no obligation. From the Labor Party there is a 'round number before 1' on submarines. It is as simple as that. (Time expired) Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Cameron and Senator Macdonald.