Senator JOHNSTON (Western Australia—Minister for Defence) (14:46): Having told you who I look to for advice—that is, naval officers with 150 years of combined knowledge and experience—can I tell you that they will continue to be my trusted advisers looking at what is Australia's most complex defence capability acquisition program— Senator Moore: I rise on a point of order. Again, it concerns direct relevance. This time we have moved away from the committee and we are now on a particular question about comments made by Senator Fawcett. I would like you to draw the minister's attention to that question. The PRESIDENT: The minister is highlighting his answer. I remind the minster that he as 32 seconds left to answer the question. Senator JOHNSTON: As I said yesterday, because of the complete lack of capacity by the Labor Party to actually do anything to do with submarines— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Macdonald and Senator Conroy. Senator Wong, you have the call. Senator Wong: I rise on a point of order. That point concerns direct relevance. This minister has flouted the standing orders over and over again. It is time for you to return him to the question. He was specifically asked one question: is Senator Fawcett correct? I ask you, Mr President, to return him to the question. He ought to be directly relevant to that question. Senator Ian Macdonald: I would like to comment on the point of order. Clearly the Labor Party have run out of questions, so I am going to help them by giving a long, irrelevant speech on this point of order. The PRESIDENT: Senator Macdonald, that is no point of order. Minister, you have 20 seconds left in which to answer the questions. I remind you of the specific nature of the question. Senator JOHNSTON: There are very many opinions that are available to the Australian government from people who have a great deal of experience in this space. The most important consideration will always be the best capability for the navy, and we will listen to those officers. (Time expired)