Senator LUDWIG (Queensland—Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Minister Assisting on Queensland Floods Recovery) (14:50): I thank Senator Ian MacDonald for his question. What I always do is not take what they say as a written rule. What I would prefer to do in many instances is make sure that the question has in fact got the facts correct. That is why, if you look at the best way to seek to have a carbon price, it is to set it through a fixed period and then move to a emissions trading scheme. There is a clear path in moving that way and we stand by that path we are leading through. If you look at the opportunities that are there, it is the best way to reduce and remove emissions from our system. Opposition senators interjecting— Senator LUDWIG: It is very difficult, Mr President. The PRESIDENT: Order! All right, when there is silence we will proceed. Senator LUDWIG: Thank you, Mr President. Again, it is an area where I do not accept what the opposition have said. The modelling has assumed $29 in 2015-16 on the basis of a world price consistent with the low end of the 2020 emissions reduction pledges made by 89 countries through the UNFCCC process. Let us be clear about what this means. Nearly 90 countries have made 2020 pledges to reduce emissions. That was on the basis of our modelling and it is not in a vacuum. What those opposite are claiming is that we should disregard international action and we should not use the most comprehensive modelling available to us. Senator Brandis: Mr President, I raise a point of order on the issue of direct relevance. We have given the minister all but eight seconds to address a very simple and specific question: does the government stand by the prediction or doesn't it? That is all the question asked. The minister was obviously embarrassed by being unable to respond or he would have done so in the minute and 52 seconds he has taken, but you should direct him to answer the question. Senator Jacinta Collins: Mr President, on the point of order: this is just such a beat-up. The minister has been answering the question. He was asked about the prediction based on modelling and, as he is explaining, this prediction is not in a vacuum. I am trying to listen to the minister, I must say, and it is near impossible with all the noise coming from the other side. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! The minister does have eight seconds remaining. There is no point of order at this stage. The minister has the call. Senator LUDWIG: Thank you, Mr President. The government does stand by the Treasury modelling.