Senator LUDWIG (Queensland—Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Minister Assisting on Queensland Floods Recovery) (14:33): I thank Senator Joyce. One of the difficulties in this is always the opposition's continued opposition to it. That is how they seem to be yelling about it. But the premise of the question—or perhaps the way you have phrased it—is that in the EU they regulate, whereas we have a fixed period and then move to an emissions trading scheme. To ensure that the record is straight around this: the EU was the first international carbon market in the world and is now the largest. It has operated for nearly a decade and has delivered cost-effective emissions reductions. Trading carbon with other credible trading systems is in our national interest because it will help us reduce emissions at the lowest cost. We have not suddenly stopped trading in goods and services with the EU simply because of the current economic circumstances. In fact, if you look at the EU as a bloc, it is Australia's largest trading partner, accounting for over $90 billion worth of two-way trade. From 2015 that trading relationship will include carbon as well. Australia will have the same carbon price as 30 other countries with a combined population of 530 million, and this government is in discussions with schemes being developed in China, Korea, New Zealand and California— Senator Joyce: Mr President, I rise on a point of order, on relevance. The substance of the question is quite clear: why does Europe get a subsidy for their coal producers and we have to pay a tax? What is the explanation and the logic from the government? That is the point I am alluding to. The PRESIDENT: There is no point of order. I believe the minister is answering the question. The minister does have 31 seconds remaining. Senator LUDWIG: And of course it is one of those areas where—perhaps Senator Joyce did not hear when I first answered him—they have a different scheme. They regulate, whereas what we are doing is using the market based system to drive down emissions. I am sure they will eventually agree with this policy. They are unwilling, but I have no doubt that, should they ever get to government, they will not reverse this scheme. They will continue to support an emissions trading scheme— (Time expired)