Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Finance and Deregulation) (14:29): I have to say I anticipated this question from Senator Cormann, but I thank Senator Milne— Senator Fifield: All roads lead back to Mathias! Senator WONG: I have no response to that. It is— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: When there is silence we will proceed. Senator Milne is entitled to hear the answer. Senator WONG: First, it is the case— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong. Senator WONG: It is the case, as has been reported, that the Treasurer has written to the state treasurers on the issue of royalties to remind them of the government's position in relation to increases in royalties. As the Senate may or may not be aware, the New South Wales government has announced it will increase rates and the Queensland government is also indicating a royalty increase is in the spotlight in its September budget. I make this point: it would be interesting to see if the Queensland Liberal senators advocate as strongly against that tax as they have against the minerals tax— Senator Brandis: We have a $65 billion debt to pay off. Senator WONG: Oh, so a state Liberal mining tax is fine, is it, Her Majesty, but a Commonwealth profits based tax that delivers to Australians? That's bad! This is an extraordinary proposition. Anyway, I return to the question from Senator Milne. I have previously indicated to Senator Milne in relation to the minerals tax a number of points. The first is that it is a volatile tax. Obviously, as a profits based tax, movements in volumes and prices obviously affect the tax take. The government is of the view that we do need to seek to resolve these issue with the states, which is why the government has written, through the Treasurer— Senator Joyce: Mr President, I rise on a point of order on proper titles. It is about Senator Brandis. Minister Wong continues to throw what is an acerbic comment and one that we know full well she is not capable of taking herself. If she cannot take it, she should not throw it at Senator Brandis. Senator WONG: I get called much worse than that by you! Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence we will proceed. Senator Collins. Senator Ronaldson: Give your pay back. You're a thousand bucks a word. Senator Jacinta Collins: That just makes my point. Maybe Senator Joyce cannot hear the nature of some of the interjections up this end, but for him to be making that point absent what we all hear coming across the chamber from the other side is, I think, ridiculous. The PRESIDENT: There is no point of order, but I do remind, as I did earlier, that honourable senators need to refer to people in both this place and the other place by their correct titles. The minister has nine seconds remaining to answer the question asked by Senator Milne. Senator WONG: Thank you. As I previously indicated, the budget estimates were $13.4 billion, as the senator has indicated. That was a revision down in the first three years, and we will update— (Time expired)