Mr BOWEN (McMahon—Minister for Climate Change and Energy) (14:29): I thank the honourable member for his question. It's the last sitting week of this year, and the honourable member just rustled up his fourth question to me all year, so congratulations! It took you all year to get four questions, which is a great achievement! If the Treasurer's worried about productivity, he may want to have a look at the member for Fairfax! The member for Fairfax asked me about the Capacity Investment Scheme, which is a very important scheme to ensure that we are getting reliable energy into the system, and it works as an auction. It is quite common practice in governments of all levels, when you are conducting an auction, to say that it is commercial in confidence, and that makes sense. That's why the New South Wales— Mr Taylor interjecting— Mr BOWEN: That's why the New South Wales Liberal government, when they introduced their equivalent scheme, kept the cost commercial in confidence. That's the way it works in Western Australia. We hear from the member for Hume. It's a concept he might be familiar with because, when he announced the UNGI scheme, underwriting new generation investments—which would have been better called 'unfortunately, no generation involved'; actually there was not one watt—he said, when he was asked, 'These discussions are commercial in confidence, and I'm not going to go into the details of them here and now.' My old friend the former member for Flinders, Greg Hunt, when he was bringing down the Emissions Reduction Fund—remember that, Direct Action—one of the 26 failed energy policies he was asked to cost, said: … the Clean Energy Regulator could run tender rounds to select eligible offers on a lowest-cost priority basis up to a benchmark price. This benchmark would be commercial-in-confidence to encourage businesses to submit their lowest price. There's an even bigger example. The member for Cook—I'm not sure in which capacity the member for Cook was speaking on this occasion— The SPEAKER: The minister will pause. The member for Fairfax on a point of order? Mr Ted O'Brien: The minister is being evasive. The SPEAKER: The point of order? Mr Ted O'Brien: The point of order is one on relevance, because the question went to when the minister will advise the true cost of his scheme, a question he is yet to come to in his answer. The SPEAKER: The minister was not asked about alternative proposals in the question. I'm going to refer him back to the question. He's had two minutes so far. I'll listen to him carefully. If he strays any further, he'll be sat down. Mr BOWEN: I'm referring, of course, to why such schemes are commercial in confidence, in keeping with traditional budget treatment. This is being treated in the same regard as every other similar matter in the budget. The member for Cook was asked about his very successful deal with the French on the submarines, and he said, when asked about the cost, 'Those are commercial-in-confidence matters,' on a very cheap contract with the French for the submarines! The member for Cook went on— The SPEAKER: The minister will pause. He needs to confine his remarks to the question. If he strays one more time, he'll be sat down. You'll return to the question. Mr BOWEN: The honourable member asked me about the Capacity Investment Scheme. I very much welcome his interest. I understand his interest. It is being treated and will be treated in the same way as similar matters have been treated in budgets from time immemorial.