Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:15): I probably should have used the term 'incentive', if that's what you're referencing, but thank you for picking me up on that. I'm very grateful. We tripled the bulk-billing incentive and then we extended the tripling of the bulk-billing incentive to more Australians, because we are the party that actually wants to ensure that Medicare is strengthened for Australians. If you have an issue with that, Senator Ruston, that is unfortunate. The PRESIDENT: Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Ruston? Senator Ruston: I was wondering whether the minister might come to the question, which is what the average out-of-pocket costs were for Australians. The PRESIDENT: Thank you. That was part of your question— Senator Ruston interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Ruston, you've just called a point of order— Senator Watt: Is Medicare still 'unsustainable', Anne? The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt!—and I'm responding to that point of order. That was part of your question. The minister is being relevant to the whole of your question. Minister Wong, please continue. Senator WONG: Thank you. As I said, the senator would be aware that the government is transparent about those figures. Those figures are released regularly, and the senator spends a lot of time in Senate estimates asking questions about them. I would also make the point that this is the same senator who described Medicare as 'unsustainable'. We on this side believe that it is important for governments, it is imperative for governments, to continue to invest in bulk-billing, and I'm sorry, Senator Ruston, if you have an issue with that.