Senator WONG (South Australia—Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:13): I refer you to my earlier answer, Senator. What I'd say to you is this: we all watched Senator Hume on Insiders— Senator McKenzie: The submission's already been through ERC. The PRESIDENT: Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie, if you can't listen in respectful silence, please leave the chamber. Minister Wong, please continue. Senator WONG: We all watched Insiders when Senator Hume was— Senator Birmingham interjecting— Senator WONG: Are you alright? I don't mind a bit, but let me just have a little bit of a go before you start, alright? How about that? We all watched as Senator Hume ducked and weaved on— Senator Hume interjecting— Senator WONG: See, she's doing it again! The PRESIDENT: Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order! Senator Hume? Senator Hume: A point of order on relevance. I specifically asked about negative gearing, not my performance on Insiders. Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! I am having some difficulty hearing the minister because of the interjections across the chamber. So, if you wish me to rule on a point of order, you need to listen in respectful silence. I do believe the minister is being relevant, but I will continue to listen very carefully—without interjections from those senators whose names I've called. Minister Wong. Senator WONG: We watched as Senator Hume ducked and weaved on the $315 billion worth of cuts that she was very keen to say they were going to deliver, but was very keen not to say what they would cut. What we know it would mean is cuts to Medicare, cuts to pensions, cuts to payments— The PRESIDENT: Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham? Senator Birmingham: A point of order on direct relevance, President. With eight seconds left, perhaps the minister could at least even utter the words 'negative gearing' to turn to the question. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will draw the minister back to Senator Hume's question. Minister Wong. Senator WONG: I started by saying that we have no plans to change negative gearing—but I'll tell you what, mate, why don't you come clean on your $315 billion? Why don't you tell people about your plan to cut the pension— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Hume, a second supplementary?