Senator FARRELL (South Australia—Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:03): I thank Senator Scarr for his first supplementary question. We do understand the hurt that ordinary Australians are feeling as a result of those increases in mortgage rates. Of course, the first point I'd make is that those increases started under your government and were a product of decisions— Senator Scarr interjecting— Senator FARRELL: Okay, Senator Scarr. Opposition senators interjecting— Senator FARRELL: No, the surplus didn't start under your government. The surplus started under this government. The fact that you keep— Senator Birmingham: But interest rates—you don't take any— The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham! Senator FARRELL: Who's asking the questions? Is it Scarr or is it Birmingham? President— Senator Birmingham: You're not answering any of them. Senator FARRELL: That isn't true. I am answering. I'm answering directly the question that Senator— (Time expired) Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! The constant interjections are disorderly. Senator Scarr, second supplementary?