Senator FARRELL (South Australia—Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:17): I thank Senator Liddle for her question. I've actually seen what you've done with ICT contracts, and the perfect example is the PEMS contract, a contract that was supposed to deliver services for members of parliament. It originally cost $48 million and is now up to $66 million and counting. And it's now being referred to the— The PRESIDENT: Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Liddle? Senator Liddle: On a point of order: the question was about reduction in services and backlog. The PRESIDENT: I will draw the minister back to the question. Senator FARRELL: Thanks for that clarification from Senator Liddle. Essentially Services Australia consists of a workforce that's made up of the Australian Public Service staff. These staff are, from time to time, supplemented by contractors, and that's the people that we're talking about at the moment. These numbers go up and down, depending on government priorities and changing circumstances. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Liddle, a second supplementary?