Senator GALLAGHER (Australian Capital Territory—Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate) (14:17): The opposition isn't asking about the tribunal's view. We are asking the minister responsible for aged-care services and an aged-care workforce whether you believe, as the minister responsible, that pay rates of $22 an hour is sufficient for aged-care workers. You should answer that question and not avoid it. Senator Abetz interjecting— Government senators interjecting — The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Abetz! Honourable senators interjecting— Senator Abetz interjecting— The PRESIDENT: I will not call the minister. I haven't got a mask on. I will not call the minister until there is silence, Senator Abetz. Minister?