Senator COLBECK (Tasmania—Minister for Sport and Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) (14:12): As I've said in this chamber before, and I've said on a number of occasions in front of your committee, Senator Gallagher, the determination of the salary for people across Australia is a matter for Fair Work Australia, which was actually legislated by the Labor Party. What I believe is that all Australians in the workforce, but particularly those working in aged care, should be fairly compensated. There is a case open right now, being considered by Fair Work Australia, in relation to the wages of Australians working in the aged-care sector. As we said we would do in response to the royal commission, we have provided support and advice to that case as it has progressed. About a week or so ago, Mr Albanese was asked: 'Do you say that aged-care workers should have a 25 per cent pay rise? Do you agree with that?' The PRES IDENT: Senator Keneally, on a point of order? Senator Keneally: Yes, on direct relevance. This was a fairly tightly worded question. It had no embroidery. It was very direct. It was literally: 'Does the minister believe the pay of $22 per hour is sufficient for aged-care workers?' It made no mention of anything about the industrial relations system or other parties in the parliament. It was a fairly tightly worded question. I ask you to bring the minister back to the question. The PRESIDENT: I've been listening to the minister answer the question. I believe that the first part of his answer was relevant to the question. The minister was straying into other territory, so I've allowed you to bring the minister back to the question. I will listen carefully to his answer. Minister, you have 40 seconds remaining. Senator COLBECK: I have directly responded to the question, but it is pertinent that Mr Albanese, when asked about this, said, 'It's up to the Fair Work Commission to determine what that figure would be'! Now, they don't want to hear that. The PRESIDENT: Minister! Honourable senators interjecting— Senator Pratt interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Pratt! Senator Keneally? Senator Keneally: I thank you for your previous comments about the minister straying from the question. Again, a point of order on direct relevance: he is straying again. The PRESIDENT: Senator Birmingham? Senator Birmingham: On the point of order: the question was about wage rates. The minister is absolutely within his rights to outline how wage rates are set and, indeed, to use direct quotes about the validity of the system that sets those wage rates. The minister was not making a political point from what I heard at the time Senator Keneally took her point of order. He was using a direct quote about the system that sets wage rates, which was entirely relevant to the context of the answer he was giving. The PRESIDENT: Senator Gallagher, on the point of order? Senator Gallagher: On the point of order, and following on from Senator Birmingham's comments: the minister was making a political point. He was quoting from a transcript about the Leader of the Opposition and he was making a political point. It had no relevance at all, and it was ignoring the direction that you just provided to the minister. He completely ignored your direction. The PRESIDENT: On the point of order, Senator Canavan? Senator Canavan: Yes, on the point of order: can I point out here that all the minister is doing is confirming how our wage system works by referring to someone who has been a member of this parliament for many years, Mr Albanese. The only implication you can take from the points by Senator Gallagher is she does not think that Mr Albanese is an authority about how our system works, and he does not know, apparently, how our system works— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Canavan! Senator Canavan: because all the minister is doing is quoting someone who probably knows— The PRESIDENT: This is a debating point. Senator Canavan! Senator Canavan: how the system works. It's not a political point. The PRESIDENT: Senator Canavan, resume your seat. I think we've all heard enough. I allowed you to direct the minister back to the question, as I believe there was a risk that he was straying from the direct topic. I will continue to listen to the minister's answer. I am not yet convinced that the minister is not being relevant, but I am listening very carefully. Minister, you have the call for 31 seconds. Senator COLBECK: As I've said, I believe that all Australians in the workforce, particularly those in aged care, should be fairly remunerated. The level of that remuneration should be determined by Fair Work Australia. That's what the government said, and that's exactly what Mr Albanese said. He agrees. So I believe that they should be fairly remunerated. I know they work hard. I appreciate how hard they work. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question?