Senator COLBECK (Tasmania—Minister for Sport and Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services) (14:25): The surge workforce was not designed to fill every unfilled shift in aged care during COVID. It wasn't designed to do that. The advice that the government provided to aged-care providers right at the beginning of the pandemic was that they would be required to have some capacity themselves to manage vacancies and shift— The PRESIDENT: Senator Watt, on a point of order? Senator Watt: On relevance: the question was a factual one and went to the percentage of unfilled shifts that the surge workforce is filling. That was the question. It wasn't about the policy rationale or anything else like that. We'd just like a factual answer to that factual question. Senator Birmingham: On the point of order, Mr President, as you have ruled and your predecessors have ruled regularly, it is not for the chair to determine precisely how a question should be answered; it's for the chair to uphold the standing orders in terms of the direct relevance of an answer, and, of course, that direct relevance can go to type of policy considerations and other things Senator Watt has said would not be relevant. It is not the case that just because a question asks for a particular number that other relevant policy and issues associated with such data or facts would not also be directly relevant. Clearly, they would be. The PRESIDENT: I've been listening to the minister's answer. I believe he was being directly relevant to the question. The minister has 39 seconds remaining. I call the minister. Senator COLBECK: As I said, it does relate specifically to the question, because the inference is that the surge workforce should fill all shifts that aren't being filled and that is not what the surge workforce was designed to fill. In the advice to the sector provided early in the pandemic, providers themselves were required to have capacity to fill a certain proportion of shifts themselves. We have said where that capacity became overwhelmed we would come in and support them with the surge workforce, and that's what we've done. That's what we have done, and we've continued to build the surge workforce to assist the sector to manage COVID-19 and their workforce shortages. The PRESIDENT: Senator Walsh, a second supplementary?