Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:30): Again, Senator McKim, we're going to have to agree to disagree. You and I have done this dance before, and I don't propose to do the dance again. I need to remind the chamber that a fundamental difference between the Morrison government—those on the coalition side of politics—and, in particular, the Australian Greens and the Australian Labor Party is that we believe in sovereign borders. That is it—full stop. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKim, on a point of order? Senator McKim: Mr President, my point of order is on relevance. I asked how much money the government has spent detaining the family from Biloela and in legal costs against the family. I ask that you remind the minister of the question. The PRESIDENT: Senator McKim, that was the first part of the question. The second part was much more widely written. It was: 'how can you possibly justify?' I think, with respect, that the minister has a lot of discretion in answering such a wide question. I regard that question as quite wide. The first part was quite specific, I grant you. But, in this case, I think the minister's being relevant to the second part of the question. Senator CASH: And that is exactly what you did. You did mention expense, Senator McKim, so I do need to remind you that the border protection failures of those opposite, combined with those of the Australian Greens, cost the Australian taxpayer— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKim, on a point of order? Senator McKim: It is, again, on relevance, Mr President. In regard to your first ruling that the second part of my question was, 'How can you possibly justify this expenditure?'—that is, the expenditure that I referred to in the first part of my supplementary question—I would put to you, respectfully, that, in fact, it's quite a tightly worded question and the minister is not being relevant to it. The PRESIDENT: I do regard the first part of your question as a factual question. The second part of the question asked the minister for an explanation. Your point of order goes to the content or the validity of that explanation, and I think that's a matter for debate after question time. Senator CASH: As I was saying, Senator McKim, it was $17 billion; that is how I am justifying it. There was $17 billion worth of taxpayer money that had to be outlaid to protect Australians from your border protection failures. There were 50,000 people who arrived on 800 boats and 1,200 lives were lost at sea. Honourable senators interjecting— Senator CASH: There were 8,000 children detained while Labor was in government, and in July 2013, let's just remind people, 10,201 people were in detention— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: There was too much noise approaching the end of that answer. Even I was having trouble hearing the minister.