Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Finance, Minister for Trade, Tourism and Investment, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:03): The reforms we're putting in place are, first and foremost, about getting more Australians into jobs. Australians have the best chance of having the best pay packet when they are in a job, when there are more Australians in jobs and when we see growth in the jobs market. In terms of Australians being better off, employees in casual work wanting to transition to part-time or full-time work will be better off under the reforms that we are proposing. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, on a point of order? Senator Wong: I asked both in the primary and in the first supplementary about cuts to take-home pay. I ask the minister to be directly relevant to that question. The PRESIDENT: Both of your questions, Senator Wong, did have some politically loaded phrases in them. The minister, in my view, can't be instructed to answer a part of the question. He is talking about the specific policy and package of bills, and I do consider that to be directly relevant because he is talking about the government's policy and not anything else. Senator Birmingham. Senator BIRMINGHAM: Thanks, Mr President. In relation to Australians in jobs being better off, as I was saying, those in casual work wanting to transition to greater levels of permanency will be better off under our reforms. Those part-time employees wanting more hours of work in key industries will be better off. Employees worried about being underpaid will be better off under the reforms that we have outlined. Employees working in significant greenfields projects— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong on a point of order? Senator Wong: Cuts to take-home pay; that's the question—direct relevance. Why won't you tell the truth, Simon? The PRESIDENT: The minister is being directly relevant. Senator Wong: Why won't you tell the truth? Senator BIRMINGHAM: Mr President, we are making sure— Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Wong— Senator BIRMINGHAM: that Australians will be better off, because there will be more incentive for more jobs. With more jobs, you've got more opportunities for Australians to succeed and get ahead. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, a final supplementary question?