Mr HOCKEY (North Sydney) (14:39): I refer the Treasurer to his answer to a question on 21 May when he said, 'At the end of each year we will be within the $250 billion cap—and he explained the face value of gross debt. Given that his own budget papers give four-year forecasts on net debt, why will the Treasurer not come clean with the Australian people and explain exactly how much gross debt at face value will be owed by Australian taxpayers under his four-year budget? Mr Ewen Jones interjecting— The SPEAKER: Order! The member for Herbert will leave the chamber under 94(a). The member for Herbert then left the chamber.