Senator SCARR (Queensland) (16:33): At the outset I acknowledge the senator from Western Australia's passion in relation to this issue and I note that it's an issue which she often speaks about in this place. I don't think that there's a single senator sitting in this chamber who is not concerned about the opportunities which some people in our community are struggling to find: to obtain work, sustainable employment and to progress their lives in the way that I think everyone in this country should have the opportunity to do so. The question is: what are the appropriate policy settings to address that circumstance? That is where the government differs in its approach from the good senator from Western Australia. We should place this debate in a context. The fact of the matter is that we currently have the lowest proportion of working-age people on welfare in 30 years. That's a good thing. It's a great thing that we have the lowest proportion of working-age people on welfare in 30 years. It should also be noted that in the last budget year this country spent $172 billion on welfare—35 per cent of all government spending is spent on welfare. We do have a substantial social net in this country, and that's an important thing. We should have a substantial social net. We are a rich country and I think we're in a position to offer that. With respect to Newstart, as the senator did recognise, it is indexed to CPI twice a year. Secondly, the fact of the matter is that many people—and I'd say most people who receive Newstart—are eligible to receive other entitlements from the federal government and indeed from a number of state governments around the country. That should be recognised as well. This government's focus is to try to provide an opportunity for people currently on Newstart to find a path to work, because work is the best form of welfare you can provide to a person. Every day that I'm standing in this place, I'll be looking to how we make it easier, not harder, for every business in this country to employ more people, especially young people—especially young people in regional Queensland in some of the socioeconomically disadvantaged areas in my home state—and get that extra young person an opportunity to seek employment. That's important; it's absolutely fundamental. The government has instituted a number of programs in order to provide that pathway to work. The government is focused on breaking down the barriers some Australians face in returning to the workforce, which is why we are investing $96 million in Try, Test and Learn, which is trialling innovative pathways to work for people at risk of long-term welfare dependency. Now, I know that the senator has passionate views with respect to the next subject I am about to touch upon: the cashless debit card. The results in my home state of Queensland are promising. That is the reality of the situation. Senator Siewert: You are misquoting the data. Senator SCARR: I'm not misquoting the data. Senator Siewert: Yes, you are. Senator SCARR: Well, let me give you the data. The latest data shows that the number of people receiving Newstart or youth allowance in the Bundaberg and Hervey Bay regions has reduced between June 2018 and June 2019. It has reduced by 8.7 per cent in Bundaberg and by 10.2 per cent in Hervey Bay. That is the actual data. It's not my data; it's the ABS's data. What happened in those areas, as distinct from other areas in regional Queensland, that made Bundaberg and Hervey Bay outliers with respect to reducing youth dependency on Newstart and youth allowance? What was the critical difference? The critical difference was the cashless debit card. That was the only difference. We didn't see that reduction in Logan, south of Brisbane; we didn't see it in Ipswich; we didn't see it in Brisbane; we didn't see it in Mackay and we didn't see it in Townsville. We saw it in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay, the only parts of regional Queensland that saw this astonishing decrease. In Bundaberg, 502 people came off Newstart or youth allowance and in Hervey Bay 395 came off Newstart or youth allowance. The statistics are compelling. The data is compelling. What is also compelling is what my good friend Keith Pitt, the member for Hinkler, tells us about the feedback from his constituents. This is his patch, his area. What is he telling us? I've given you the data, now let me tell you what he's hearing from his constituents. He's hearing reports that people are able to budget better and have money left over at the end of the fortnight, so they have some savings. This is what he's telling us; this is what his own people are telling him—his own constituents. They're telling him that people have asked if they can volunteer to go on the card. This is in the legislation, to allow volunteers in the Hinkler trial. Currently, people cannot volunteer in other areas. But they're asking if they can go on the card to assist in their ability to manage their circumstances. One of the emergency relief organisations in Hervey Bay has reported a reduction in people coming in for free food. Senator Siewert interjecting— Senator SCARR: Well, Senator Siewert, I'll give you the quote from 7.30. This is what happened on 7.30—it's straight from the transcript: There is however some anecdotal evidence the card is having an effect according to this Hervey Bay-based food charity. JAN CARLSON, WE CARE 2: We have noticed since about July a significant decrease in the number of people coming in for free food through the emergency relief program and an increase, almost parallel in numbers, to the people coming through our low cost food centre and actually purchasing food. PETER MCCUTCHEON: And do you think that can be attributed to the cashless debit card? JAN CARLSON: Well, I can't say unequivocally but it's a trend that we have never seen before. We have never had that, we usually would get in three days we would get at least 30, maybe 36 people through emergency relief previously. Now we're probably seeing 12 a week. That's the feedback from constituents in my friend Keith Pitt's seat of Hinkler. That's what his people are telling him. That's what the community is saying. Senator Siewert, if you look at those regional job figures across Queensland for that period— Senator Siewert: No it's not! The figures that you had in the media were in fact that there was a significant drop before— The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Fierravanti-Wells ): Senator Siewert, interjections are disorderly. Senator SCARR: I'll take the interjection, and I'll say that the period was between June 2018 and June 2019. There were three areas in my home state of Queensland which had that significant drop in unemployment: one was outback Queensland, which was incredibly significant. It was so significant that I've made inquiries as to the reason for the significance. The other regions were Bundaberg and Hervey Bay—not in Logan, not in Ipswich, not in Brisbane, not in Mackay, not in Townsville and not in Cairns. It was in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay. The only difference from those other regions is the fact that they have the cashless debit card. At the very least, it should cause someone to pause and reflect on the information which has been passed through to Keith Pitt, a passionate member for his people in the seat of Hinkler. They should pause and reflect on the circumstances in his region. The people of Australia deserve that pause and reflection. And it isn't just happening in Queensland. Let me go to the good state of South Australia and the seat of my good friend Rowan Ramsey, the member for Grey, where the cashless debit card was introduced in the region of Ceduna. Let me quote from Rowan Ramsey, the member for Grey. He sat down with the leadership group in Ceduna. That included the Indigenous groups around that greater community, and the Mayor of Ceduna. These are his words: … we agreed together to trial the cashless welfare card. I'd have to say that community is absolutely delighted with the results. It came on the back of a coroner's report after no less than seven people had died either sleeping rough or in accidents on the road with intoxication. I had been to Ceduna and talked to people at the drying-out centre, where they said, 'Last night there was a woman in here who was eight months pregnant who could not stop throwing up.' It is just heartbreaking when you hear the stories. This card has made a palpable difference. It has changed Ceduna. The Indigenous leaders there have stood up strongly, and they believe in the card. A gentlemen the other day said to me— This is a quote from a constituent of Rowan Ramsey's seat of Grey in South Australia— 'I get all the numbers; I get all the figures. But this place just feels like a whole lot better place.' Another positive example from Ceduna in Rowan Ramsey's seat of Grey. Again, I think it's incumbent upon every senator in this chamber to stand up, sit back and take notice of the results that are being achieved. I would also like to see a drug-testing trial rolled out as well. I know there will be some who will perhaps say, 'This is a punitive measure. Why do you want to adopt that?' I'll tell you why: one of the biggest impediments to someone getting a job is drug dependency. That's one of the biggest impediments, so anything this government can do to break down that barrier of addiction, we should do, and that deserves a trial. Senator Pratt: You are depriving people of a basic income if you do that. Senator SCARR: It's not intended to do that, Senator. I'll take that interjection. It's not intended to do that. Instead, it's quite the opposite—it's to assist them to get the necessities of life in a situation where they've got an addiction to drugs. It's to assist them to get on the pathway to employment. If they have a positive drug test and then come back a period of time later and have another one, that person's got a problem. They've got a problem and they need assistance and support. One of the ways in which we can provide that assistance and support is through a cashless debit card to make sure that they get the essentials of life. When that is married with an effective treatment program—you can't have one without the other. If you were to do that, that would be punitive. If you were to simply change their income circumstances without offering an effective treatment program, that would be punitive. But the proposition is that, if they do have that drug dependency, they are then put on a path to treatment so they can actually have the same opportunities that every person in this country deserves. That is the intention behind the policy. We might well have differences with respect to the appropriate pathway to assist disadvantaged people in this country to realise the opportunities which everyone in this country should have, but the intention underpinning both the cashless debit card and the drug-testing trial is to assist people to manage their circumstances and put them on a pathway where they can have a better life and enjoy a better life. That is the intention, and both the results from my friend Keith Pitt, the member for Hinkler, in Queensland, and from my friend Rowan Ramsey, the member for Grey, in South Australia, are extremely positive. In my view, we should take heed of those and we should act on those results. Personally, I'd like to see the programs rolled out across wider parts of Australia. I think they're wonderful programs. They need additional research, I'll grant you that, to look at the results, but that feedback from those two local MPs is very positive and promising, and I think it's something which the senators in this chamber should consider.