Senator CASH (Western Australia—Minister for Small and Family Business, Skills and Vocational Education) (14:42): I thank Senator Cameron for the question. Senator Cameron, unlike you, I will never talk down the vocational education and training system in this country. I will never talk it down. Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my left! Senator CASH: Every time you mention the word 'VET', every time you refer to the vocational education and training system in this country— Senator Cameron interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order, Senator Cameron! Senator CASH: Senator Cameron talks it down. Colleagues, you should have seen Senator Cameron at estimates when it came to the international reputation of Australia's vocational and education training system. It is a world-class system. And I am proud— Senator Wong: You're cutting the funding. You're defunding it! The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong! Senator CASH: I'm proud to be the minister responsible for vocational education and training in this country. But we need to at all times ensure— Senator Ian Macdonald: Point of order. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Macdonald? Senator Ian Macdonald: I'm sorry to interrupt the minister, but, after Senator Wong's pious words on proper behaviour, she again flouts the rules by constantly interjecting when Senator Cash is speaking, and she's doing it now. Is there one set of rules for Senator Wong and one set for every other senator? The PRESIDENT: I was calling numerous senators to order. There was way too much noise during that particular answer. I ask all senators to keep the standing orders in mind so we can hear the answer. Senator Hinch on a point of order? Senator Hinch: Mr President, we could hardly hear a word of that answer back here. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Hinch. Senator CASH: I have to say, that is surprising. Senator Wong raises the issue of TAFE and defunding. Well, Senator Wong, you're actually wrong. If you look at what the states have done—in particular, the states of Queensland and Victoria—they've actually said no to hundreds of millions of dollars under the Skilling Australians Fund. In fact, colleagues, the governments of Queensland and Victoria turned their backs on the creation of around 100,000 new apprentices. Those of us on this side of the chamber are proud of our VET sector's reputation. We are proud of the qualifications that it gives to millions and millions of Australians. Senator Cameron, unlike you, we understand that you should always look to make sure that your VET sector is delivering the skills that industry needs and ensuring that Australians have the skills that our employers want. Senator Cameron, wake up! We actually don't live in the dark ages. Industry 4.0 is upon us, and those of us on this side of the chamber will ensure that Australians are equipped with the skills of the future. (Time expired)