Senator PAYNE (New South Wales—Minister for Foreign Affairs) (14:12): I would have hoped during the period of time in which Senator Carr held responsible for an industry portfolio that he understood the process that is required for naval shipbuilding, but, no. I actually know why he doesn't understand it. It's because they had no experience at it whatever. Let me tell you what this government has done to support jobs in a number of ways that go beyond the investment that I've already talked about. We have a targeted retention strategy, which is creating up to 200 positions within ASC submarines for current shipbuilders working on the Air Warfare Destroyer Program, including up to 100 workers supporting the Future Submarine program office and filling vacant positions in the Collins class sustainment office and up to 100 scholarships to workers to support opportunities to upskill in roles in operations management, computer aided design, engineering— The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron on a point of order. Senator Cameron: This is on relevance. The question goes to the issue of whether the government will draw down on the money. The minister hasn't gone near that question. The PRESIDENT: That was the second part of the question. I think the minister's being directly relevant. Senator PAYNE: I can also confirm with pleasure that two offshore patrol vessels will be built by ASC shipbuilding, with production starting in the fourth quarter of 2018, directly employing up to 400 workers at Osborne and 600— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Carr, a final supplementary question.