Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Trade, Tourism and Investment and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:41): This is a grubby smear by those opposite. Let us understand that every Australian family is entitled, under the same laws of the land, to receive childcare support. Under the old childcare benefit and the childcare rebate or today under the childcare subsidy implemented by this government. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong on a point of order. Senator Wong: The point of order is direct relevance. The question is not about what the family receives as a benefit, the question is about what they receive as an operator. Senator Scullion: The people want to know the full story, Penno. Senator Wong: I'll take that: people do want to know the full story. Reports indicate that $5.6 million has been paid to a company which has been owned by his family trust. This is the opportunity for the minister to respond to that. The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, with respect, they are debating points. The minister is being directly relevant to the question, in my view. I call him to continue. Senator BIRMINGHAM: As I was making very clear, every Australian family is entitled to the same type of support as they always have been. Childcare operators, who go through the usual standard registration processes, can administer those subsidies on behalf of those Australian families. I don't know whether the thrust of Senator Pratt's question is to somehow suggest that Mr Dutton's wife should not be allowed to have business interests in relation to providing quality childcare services to Australian families or that those families somehow ought to be denied the same rights as other families. The PRESIDENT: Senator Collins on a point of order. Senator Jacinta Collins: On the point of order, Mr President: Senator Pratt made no reference at all to Mr Dutton's wife. The PRESIDENT: That is not a point of order, Senator Collins, and you know better. Senator Birmingham. Senator BIRMINGHAM: The fact here is that those families receive benefits, paid for them by the government to the centre, for fee relief like any other family around Australia under the exact same circumstances as any other centre around Australia. (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Pratt, a final supplementary question.