Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS (New South Wales—Minister for International Development and the Pacific) (14:55): In the spirit of Thursday afternoon, Senator Sterle, in relation to this issue, Senator Cormann's sitting right here. He represents the minister for financial services and the Treasurer, and so there you are— Opposition senators interjecting— Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Scared of asking? Why don't you ask him the question? Are you scared of asking Senator Cormann a question? Are you scared of asking Senator Cormann? My, my, my, Senator Cormann's ferocious reputation is scaring Senator Sterle from asking a question. The PRESIDENT: Senator Fierravanti-Wells, please resume your seat. Senator Collins. Senator Jacinta Collins: Point of order: once again, we are simply asking the minister to be relevant to the question. The question relates to her previous statements where she prosecuted this argument in relation to pension cuts. The PRESIDENT: Senator Collins, I think it would be unreasonable of me to try and apply an incredibly strict definition of 'direct relevance' to that question, as asked; in fact, it would be very difficult to do so. Senator Reynolds. Senator Reynolds: I rise on a point of order. It relates to debate yesterday, and we've heard that behaviour from those opposite again today. Several comments from those opposite taken in isolation are one thing, but we've heard again an exchange about 'cats' and 'she'—the discussion about the 'cat's mother' and 'she'. Yesterday the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate referred repeatedly, in a very derogatory way, not to 'the minister' but to 'she'. The Hansard will show that you've also made comments about the minister being a joke. Again, this is a pattern of behaviour and language that I find highly insulting and inappropriate. It is very reminiscent of the shameful behaviour from those opposite towards Senator Fiona Nash, in terms of the language and the inappropriateness. The PRESIDENT: Senator Reynolds, I've heard your point of order; please resume your seat. I'm happy to rule, but would you like to say something, Senator Wong? Senator Wong: I'm happy to withdraw 'she' if that assists. I would also make the point that the 'cat's mother' reference was made by the minister herself. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Collins. Senator Jacinta Collins: I too am happy to withdraw— The PRESIDENT: I would like to rule on Senator Reynolds' point of order first. Do you want to withdraw? My apologies, Senator Collins. Senator Jacinta Collins: I would like to withdraw reference to the word 'she', if, indeed, the minister finds that offensive. But—well, I won't say anything further. The PRESIDENT: A number of the issues Senator Reynolds made towards the end of her contribution are actually matters for debate, not matters for the standing orders. I will however remind senators of the rules around parliamentary language, particularly around language that other senators find offensive, and also imputations. Senator Wong interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Senator Wong, can I be heard in silence at least? I don't think there's a point of order. We have had a couple of withdrawals. I do ask all senators to keep the standing orders and courtesies towards their colleagues in mind. Senator Fierravanti-Wells, to conclude her answer. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: You can go on and on as much as you like, but, in the end, the fact is that you are taking money out of pensioners' pockets—pensioners all over this country. Two hundred and thirty thousand pensioners and part pensioners are going to lose out under your policies. You're going to have to go out and explain yourself to all those people and explain why you are taking money out of their pockets.