Senator BIRMINGHAM (South Australia—Minister for Education and Training) (14:15): I thought that Senator Moore's question yesterday was a pretty embarrassing occasion, but it was a very distant silver medal compared to what we just saw from Senator Di Natale. Mr President, there is one fact that is very clear: if the Australian Greens had had their way over the last decade— Senator Williams: We wouldn't have electricity— Senator BIRMINGHAM: the energy crisis in Australia would be much, much worse than it is today. Indeed, Senator Williams is right: the lights probably wouldn't be on in here if the Greens had had their way. If the Greens had had their way, every single renewable energy target that was put forward would never have been enough. If the Greens had had their way, every single carbon tax proposal put forward would never have been enough. If the Greens had had their way, they, of course, would have taxed to closure every single coal-fired generator in the country by now. That would have been the policy proposition of the Australian Greens. Would we have had any dispatchable base load power today? No, we would not have had anything that the Australian energy market could have relied on if the Greens had had their way. So the very idea of Senator Di Natale coming in here, wanting to talk about energy affordability or energy reliability, is preposterous, because the Greens have been the ones who have gone on and on over the years, seeking harsher policies that would have simply driven prices up, driven affordability down, driven reliability down, driven energy generation out of business and ensured that we had nothing that was reliable, nothing that was dispatchable and nothing that was base load. All, of course— The PRESIDENT: Senator McKim, a point of order, I presume? Senator McKim: Yes, indeed, it is a point of order. It won't surprise you to learn that my point of order goes directly to relevance. We've been very patient here. We've given Senator Birmingham until he has less than 20 seconds left. He has not come within a million miles of addressing the question. President, I remind you: the question wasn't about the Greens policy; it was about the government's lack of a coherent energy policy and the fact that things are crumbling around them. I ask you to remind the minister of the question. The PRESIDENT: I did indicate to Senator Di Natale earlier in the piece that, if you ask a very long and wide-ranging preamble—which actually included some questions—the minister is indeed in order to respond in the way he is. Senator BIRMINGHAM: Thank you, Mr President. I seem to recall, in Senator Di Natale's question, that he asked if I could help him. I was helping him to look at some of the Greens policies, some of the failures of their policies and, of course, the dire situation that Australia would be in. The Turnbull government's getting on with fixing the retail market, fixing the network market, dealing with generation and delivering affordability and reliability. The PRESIDENT: Senator Di Natale, a supplementary question?