Senator CORMANN (Western Australia—Minister for Finance and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:00): I am really pleased that Senator Ketter watches my interviews with Mr Bolt. I think we all know that Mr Bolt does what Senator Ketter does—that is, ask me a question where he already knows the answer. Senator Ketter knows very well that in Budget Paper No. 1, at page 7-8, all those numbers are spelled out. He also would be aware that at the back of the budget papers, in tables 11-14 and 11-15, it is all spelled out— Opposition senators interjecting— Senator CORMANN: They are getting themselves very excited! The very important point that I made in the interview yesterday is that the number that Senator Katter knows very well is much lower than it would have been if Labor had stayed in government. The projection is there for all to see—that, at the end of the forward estimates, gross debt is projected to be $606 billion— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: A point of order, Senator Dastyari? Senator Dastyari: On a point of order, Mr President: I could not hear the number over all the interjections. The PRESIDENT: Could I remind all senators to listen to the minister's answer in silence. Senator CORMANN: Thank you very much, Mr President. You see, the Labor Party are into these games where they ask questions where they already know the answer. It is all very juvenile. I would point out again to the chamber that the Australian Office of Financial Management publishes an issuance strategy for the budget year only, and that any projections beyond the budget year are based on a set of technical assumptions and will vary with changes in these assumptions and budget estimates and projections. So, based on these technical assumptions—and this is published in the budget papers, at page 7-8 of Budget Paper No. 1—by the end of the forward estimates period, gross debt is expected to reach $606 billion. The PRESIDENT: Senator Ketter, a supplementary question.