Senator BRANDIS (Queensland—Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:13): Senator Cameron, I am sorry to have to repeat what I said to your colleague Senator Moore, but the fact is that the trading away of the conditions of lowly paid workers relying on penalty rates is not something that is the result of any determination of the Fair Work Commission; it is a result of deals done behind the scenes by trade union officials. We know, infamously—infamously, it was revealed during the Heydon royal commission— The PRESIDENT: Order! Pause the clock. A point of order, Senator Cameron? Senator Cameron: Again, a point of order on relevance. Unions cannot trade anything away behind the scenes, Mr President. There are democratic processes— The PRESIDENT: That is a debating point, Senator Cameron. Senator Cameron: that have to be undertaken. The question was: why have 700,000 workers who will lose $77 a week been abandoned? The minister has not gone anywhere near that question. The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Cameron. On the point of order: firstly, Senator Cameron, and to all senators, when raising a point of order, it is not the time to raise debating issues, which you did in the commencement of your point of order. Secondly, I remind the Attorney-General of the question. Senator BRANDIS: Thank you very much, Mr President. Senator Cameron, when an independent tribunal makes a decision then all political interests in this chamber—not just the government but all of us—are bound to respect the independence and the integrity of that decision, and the government does. When it comes to the decisions to lower the benefits to workers who rely on penalty rates— (Time expired) The PRESIDENT: Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question?