Senator BRANDIS (Queensland—Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate, Vice-President of the Executive Council, Minister for Arts and Attorney-General) (14:24): It is disgraceful to say of any minister that he 'has presided over … sexual assault'. What a disgraceful thing to say, Senator Waters! You should withdraw that. Senator Abetz: And she should. The PRESIDENT: Yes. I think, Senator Waters, you should withdraw that comment. That was an unparliamentary comment directed towards a member of the other house. Senator Waters: Mr President, I rise to make a point of order on relevance. Government senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order on my right! Can we deal with this other matter first. Senator Waters: Minister Dutton was the relevant minister at the time. The PRESIDENT: Yes, but there was an innuendo there, and it would be easier if you would just withdraw that. Senator Waters: Mr President, I stand by my remarks. He was the relevant minister at the relevant time. That is what the definition of 'presiding over' is. The PRESIDENT: Senator Waters, it is not so much what you say; it is the context in which you say things which affects whether it is ruled unparliamentary or not. There was an innuendo in what you said, and I do believe that you should withdraw that comment. I respectfully ask you to withdraw it. Senator Di Natale, I do not need any assistance in this matter. I have asked the senator to withdraw. Senator Di Natale: Mr President, I rise on a point of order. Your ruling implied incorrectly that there was an innuendo in what was said. There is no innuendo here. He did preside over systematic sexual abuse going on in offshore detention centres. There is no innuendo, just fact. The PRESIDENT: Senator Di Natale, I will not entertain any other points of order until I have dealt with the one from Senator Waters. Senator Waters, you are going to put me into a position where I will have to invoke standing order 203 if you do not comply with what I think is my reasonable request to withdraw that comment. Senator Waters: Thank you, Mr President. I will rephrase my question. Minister Dutton was the minister— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: No. Order! I do not need any assistance, nor does Senator Waters. Senator Waters, I think the action is quite clear. I am being reasonable and asking you to withdraw that comment. I do not want any further debate. Senator Waters: I will withdraw if I can rephrase. Minister Dutton was the immigration minister at the time of the revelations of the detention and sexual assault of asylum seekers, at the time of revelations about spying on member of parliament and at the time of laughing at climate change. When will he be dumped? The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Waters. Attorney-General, had you concluded your answer or do you have more to contribute to your answer? Senator BRANDIS: I will resume my answer. Senator Waters, you attack Mr Dutton. Mr Dutton is the second consecutive coalition immigration minister on whose watch no boats arrived and no-one drowned at sea. Senator Waters, if you and your party had had your way, those policies that saved more than a thousand lives would never have been implemented. Furthermore, although your leader had the good grace to congratulate the government last week, if it were not for the fact that Mr Dutton was one of the two ministers who secured Australia's borders, we would not have been able to give new lives and new hope to 12,000 genuinely needy people from Syria.