Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS (New South Wales) (16:20): Before I get into the substance of my contribution, I just want to share with the Senate that some senior shadows on the coalition side will be visiting China during the first week of December as guests of the Chinese Communist Party—they are Senator Brandis, Senator Johnston, Senator Scullion and Senator Bishop, along with Mr Morrison and Mr Truss. Just because they are visiting China does not make them communists, Senator Cameron. That is the fallacy in your argument. Indeed, I confess that I myself have visited Vietnam. I visited a number of people in Vietnam, but does that make me a communist? Absolutely not. Senator Cameron, would you describe me as a communist? I do not think so. I will now move to a number of matters that address the motion before us. Before I do, I would like to pick up on some comments that Senator Bob Carr made today in answer to Senator Fifield. He stated that: … there was not even an allegation in all those question times over 10 years—all those question times in the bearpit of the New South Wales parliament, regarded as the toughest in Australia. Which rock are you under, Senator Carr? Did you not listen? Obviously you were not interested in listening to what I had to say yesterday as I reiterated allegation after allegation. Indeed, I only shared with the Senate a smattering of allegations in relation to what has happened in New South Wales. The issue here is for you to answer, Mr Carr. It goes to your very judgement. That is, it was under your watch that Eddie Obeid was made a minister in New South Wales. It was under your watch that people like Mr Macdonald continued to be ministers. What is coming out of New South Wales at the moment, speaking as a person from that state, is absolutely appalling. I am ashamed when I open the newspaper and read those things—the shocking revelations that are coming out of New South Wales and the ICAC hearings. It is not just the coalition saying so. Kevin Rudd was on Q&A the other evening. He said earlier in the week that the whole future of the Labor Party could depend on cleaning up these matters. Let us not forget that it is the Sussex Street machine that gave us Eddie Obeid, that gave us Ian Macdonald, that gave us the stinking system of patronage, the culture that did really bad things in New South Wales under a series of governments, all of the Labor persuasion. It is the same Sussex Street machine that organised the political assassination of a Prime Minister in this country, an assassination in which the Prime Minister of today was complicit. It is the same Sussex Street machine that has given us political family upon political family, that gave us Karl Bitar and Mark Arbib. We all know their history in this place. This is the same Sussex Street machine which is today sustaining the Labor government in Canberra. That is the reality. New South Wales and Sussex Street and all their dirty machinations have put this woman into power and they are the ones sustaining her in power. I am sorry that Senator Cameron is no longer in the chamber because he is absolutely right when he says that the people of western Sydney are sick and tired of this Labor government. They saw it for 16 years. They saw it under successive premiers in New South Wales—including you, Mr Carr. The gestation of the corruption that is now finding its way into the public with these ICAC inquiries had at its heart a time during your government, Mr Carr, because you are the one— The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Ludlam ): Senator Fierravanti-Wells, I just ask that you refer to ministers by their correct titles. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Thank you—Senator Carr. Senator Carr, I would remind you— Senator Williams interjecting— Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Senator Bob Carr. I apologise to Senator Kim Carr, sitting across the chamber. Senator Kim Carr: That's right! Another tearful apology is required here. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: You will not get too many tears from me, Senator Kim Carr—don't you worry about that! I am no shrinking violet that gets into tears. Minister Carr had the hide to come into this place yesterday and tell us, in answer to my question: There was never a finding against the government I led on the grounds of corruption—never. Maybe he did not stick around long enough. He continued: Not once between 1995 and 2005; not about the government I led. Australia's record and that of New South Wales in the years I can speak for is exemplary. Exemplary! Does he know what the definition of exemplary is? Of course he does not, because if he really knew the definition of exemplary he could never describe his government and what we are seeing in New South Wales today as exemplary. I would remind Minister Carr that yesterday in this place I trawled through a whole series of allegations—the dates, the person who asked the question from the opposition. Let's airbrush that out of history. Let's forget the time that you were Premier and all the things that happened, forget the time that you gave birth politically to the ministry of Eddie Obeid and others in this government. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Moore ): Senator, I do not want to interrupt, but everything should be directed to the chair rather than directed at someone else in the Senate. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Thank you, Madam Acting Deputy President. Because Minister Carr obviously was not listening yesterday, let me repeat some of the issues that I raised yesterday again today. On 9 September 1999 there were questions asked of him by the then Leader of the Opposition, Mrs Chikarovski, in relation to the pecuniary interests disclosures of Labor powerbroker Eddie Obeid. She asked him: … to explain why he— Mr Obeid— asserted yesterday that he held no shares in Hapgeti when the company's own annual returns—prepared by Mr Obeid's son—shows the Minister to be the sole registered shareholder? It is pretty obvious. The documents are on the public record. What was then Premier Carr's response? He ignored the question. Mrs Chikarovski asked: Is Mr Obeid lying or is he just incompetent? Then Premier Carr's response was simply to ignore totally any mention at all of Minister Obeid, to basically bat off the question, to stonewall. Stonewalling was invented by Sussex Street. Therefore, the same tricks that have been used for many years—the stonewalling of these allegations in New South Wales—have now found their way into Canberra. That was one example, Minister Carr. Let us go to 3 September 2002, when there were a whole series of allegations surrounding then Minister Obeid in relation to the Oasis Liverpool development. Perhaps, Minister Carr, you have forgotten about the evidence that was given up to ICAC. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Moore ): Senator, address your remarks through the chair. Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Perhaps, Madam Acting Deputy President, Minister Carr has forgotten completely—it was somewhere in the dim, dark days—about the absolutely disgusting evidence that was provided at that time. But Minister Carr yesterday said that there had been no allegations made. We get to 3 September 2002. Let us have a look at these allegations of attempted bribery by the Minister for Mineral Resources and Minister for Fisheries. Mr Brogden asked the then Premier Carr what steps he took to satisfy himself of the minister's innocence and the Premier said that he had full confidence in the minister, describing the allegations as false and reckless. Premier Carr's response was: 'The Leader of the Opposition would be the only one trying to breathe life into ludicrous allegations.' He completely bats it off as being ludicrous allegations; there was no response whatsoever. On that same day, we had other members of the opposition asking questions. We had Mr Brogden asking supplementaries. We had Mr O'Farrell asking questions on the same point. Indeed, Mr O'Farrell was reminding Premier Carr that Eddie Obeid: … is the only Minister to have bought his place on the front bench by bankrolling backbench members of the Labor Party. He paid his way into the Ministry, and the Premier ought to reveal to this House the questions he asked the Minister for Mineral Resources, and Minister for Fisheries, Eddie Obeid, about his disclosures, what the ministerial Code of Conduct obliges the Minister to tell the Premier, and why the Premier continues to help a man who tells lies to this Parliament time and time again. In the end, Premier Carr completely ignores the question. He does not ever respond to questions asked by the opposition. Mr Souris was asking questions in relation to some of the evidence that had been given and some articles that had appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald that morning and about asking Mr Obeid to stand down pending investigation. That was in September 2002. On 23 October 2002, again Mr Souris from the opposition was asking questions. He said that Mr Obeid had given sworn evidence the week before to a parliamentary investigation looking into his pecuniary interests that he had had no business dealings since becoming a minister, which had been directly contradicted by further sworn evidence. Yesterday I put on the record a whole series of correspondence and indications that Mr Obeid had made to the clerk of the New South Wales parliament going to this very point. Mr Carr's response was, 'I believe the minister answered those questions fully in the Legislative Council today.' He completely batted it off. On 19 November 2002, in relation to the Valhalla Stables lease, Mr Brogden asked questions of the Premier about a briefing note from the Director of the National Parks and Wildlife Service back in 1988, when Mr Carr was minister for the environment. That briefing note referred to the minister requesting that the service review the request of Eddie Obeid with a view to providing alternatively worded provisions that could meet the requirements of the lease. This related to Mr Obeid's Valhalla Stables snow lease development and so forth. Forget it—Mr Carr refused to answer, despite the specific questions that the opposition were asking and the specific allegations they were putting to him on that occasion. We then come to 30 October 2003. Again, questions were being asked of the Premier in relation to the personal business interests of former ministers, including minsters Face, Allan, Whelan, Knight and Obeid. The Premier was asked whether he could give guarantees that none of his former ministers or parliamentary secretaries had used their positions to set up businesses or jobs to fund their retirements. Again, Premier Carr simply dismisses it—no issues, no research on the other side. There ain't anything happening that the opposition can get its teeth into. Then there was this classic comment from Premier Carr: 'I have often said that this is the period of best governance in the history of New South Wales.' An opposition senator: That's what they thought! Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: That's what they thought—wonderful governance. What a great example of governance! And here is Minister Carr refusing to answer questions asked by the opposition in this place in relation to corruption conventions and the like. Goodness me—with a history like this in New South Wales, it is a wonder that he is not an expert in the field. I am sure that his meetings with all sorts of people in this area will be very interesting. The issues before the ICAC inquiry at the moment go to the very heart of Mr Obeid's suitability to have remained in parliament, let alone be promoted to the ministry. They go to the question of the judgement of then Premier Carr, who promoted him to the ministry. They go to the very heart of the corruption over those years that saw a two-way protection racket. The question remains: who was protecting whom and why were they protecting them? How much damage is being done to Australia's good standing as a country and to New South Wales's good standing as a state in which to do business as a consequence of the evidence of serious corruption that is now emerging from the ICAC inquiry? Mr Obeid and Mr Macdonald were both men that Mr Carr saw fit to include and retain in his ministry during the time that he was Premier of New South Wales, most especially in the case of Mr Obeid, whom he frequently and vociferously defended and protected when serious questions about his integrity were raised. This is what this is about. This is what the opposition's legitimate questioning of Minister Carr is about now. It goes to his judgement, just like the questions that are being asked of the Prime Minister about her time at Slater and Gordon go to her judgement, to her integrity. That is what it is about. Minister Carr, it is wrong when you come into this place and assert that no allegations were ever put to you by any member of the opposition in New South Wales. That is blatantly wrong. What I have referred to today is only a small example of the many allegations over a long, long time in New South Wales put to you and other Labor premiers about issues going to corruption in New South Wales. It is my strong belief that, in the ICAC inquiry which is currently on foot, we will see ongoing revelations about those years in New South Wales. It really is very sad for the people of New South Wales that they daily see the decadence and the corruption that occurred for many years. If that is exemplary government—to use Minister Carr's words—I do not know what bad government is.