Senator LUDWIG (Queensland—Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and Minister Assisting on Queensland Floods Recovery) (14:13): I thank Senator Williams for his continued interest in at least parts of rural Australia. One of the important parts is that I do not accept the premise of the question. If Senator Williams has those figures then I always encourage senators to table them. Provide them to Minister Combet's office so that Mr Combet can look at the actual figures, otherwise we end up with a scare campaign again in support of that. I would have thought Senator Williams was above that, quite frankly. I think highly of him. Treasury modelling has shown that the carbon price will increase issues around electricity prices by 10 per cent and— Honourable senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! When there is silence on both sides we will proceed. Senator LUDWIG: The Treasury modelling and the recent analysis by Big Switch Projects on larger business users demonstrated an average price rise of around 11 per cent due to the carbon price. That is why it is very important to get the facts on the table. That is why it is very important to analyse this so we do not have statements in the public arena which are unsupported and which could mislead the public about the impact of generator costs and the carbon price on electricity prices. They found that the impact of the carbon price for most businesses is at or just over 2c per kilowatt hour, which is what the Treasury modelling predicted. What is also happening to large businesses is that many network companies have been increasing demand charges by as much as 75 per cent, which is resulting in overall bill increases of up to 53 per cent. So it is very important to unpack that and separate that out. If you look at that issue, you will see that the network costs are by far the greater component of the electricity price. These increases have nothing to do with— (Time expired)