Senator WILLIAMS (New South Wales—Nationals Whip in the Senate) (16:17): Madam Acting Deputy President, I would like to add to Senator Furner's comments about the member for New England. No doubt some discussions were had in confidence just after the last election, in that 17-day period, and isn't it wonderful that here is Mr Windsor now putting it all out in the open when he says Mr Abbott would have gone with a carbon tax. I can tell you that is absolute rot. If Mr Abbott was Prime Minister in a hung parliament, how would he ever get it through the parliament? I know The Nationals would not have voted for it. I know that virtually all of my colleagues in the Liberal Party would not have voted for it. Mr Windsor is not telling the truth, just like prior to the last election. Kelly Fuller was interviewing him on Tamworth radio, after Mr Windsor had put a bill into the House of Representatives wanting a 20 per cent reduction on emissions of 1990 levels by 2020 and a massive 80 per cent by 2050. Mr Windsor said: 'That wasn't my bill. No, I just put that in on behalf of some of my constituents.' It was his bill all right, and that is why he drove the carbon tax. That is why he proudly put a media release out saying, 'One of the conditions to support the Gillard government is that we form a multi-party climate change committee.' What is the idea of a carbon tax? It is to increase the cost of electricity so that people use less. That is the whole idea of it. And now we have got the cost going around and small business—go to your local engineer, someone out in a little country town knocking up machinery, augers, field bins, groupers for the agriculture or mining industry and ask them what effect it is going to have on their industry because electricity prices go up. They are going to have to charge more. So when they build something for, say, a farmer, then what does the farmer do? The farmer pays more. But tell me this: who does the farmer hand the costs on to? Can he go to the cattle yard and say, 'I demand you pay 5c extra for this steer because I've got to pay a carbon tax'? No, they are price takers, not price makers. The primary producers are price takers; they cannot pass it on. We have raised this issue about the cost on small business. We have this crazy situation of adding another 6.75c a litre diesel tax to our truckies on 1 July 2014 and people on the other side say, 'Just pass it on.' For Martin Group transport, based up there at Scone in the Hunter Valley, it is going to cost them an extra $1 million a year for their fuel. That is the increase in fuel tax alone—$1 million. So they pass it on to the cow cocky, to the farmer. I ask the question again: who does the farmer pass it on to? They cannot pass it on; they just suffer. So what happens then? They have less money, less profit, less to spend in the country towns at those small businesses that rely on that agricultural money going through their communities, keeping those businesses strong, keeping the jobs in place—they cannot pass it on. But those on the other side will never learn that. When you look at the 31 Labor senators in this chamber, I think it is either 25 or 26 come from the union movement. Have they ever run a small business? The odd one might have run a small business now and then, but they are out there representing the so-called workers. Senator Jacinta Collins: What, you think we've done anything else, do you? Senator WILLIAMS: I could take the interjection of Senator Collins and we could go down the union road. Perhaps we might talk about the Health Services Union? We might get onto the Australian Workers Union. I was a member of the Australian Workers Union for one year. I was a member for one year, in January 1978, when I was shearing at Carriewerloo Station out from Port Augusta, where they made the film Sunday Too Far Away. It was just after the state election and the then Premier Don Dunstan said, 'Unionism is not compulsory.' The rep walked into the shed and he said, 'You have a ticket?' I said, 'No'. He said, 'Do you want me to take it out of your wages, or will we take it off the boss?' I said, 'I don't want one'. He said, 'These are your options: you buy a ticket or you leave the shed.' That was the option after the '77 drought. This is how the thuggery of the unions works. And to think that when I gave them whatever the amount of money was in those days—the only time they ever got it off me, I can tell you—I wondered what happened to that money. We could ask questions about what happened to the AWU money; there is a lot of stuff out in the media now. But let's get back to the argument about small business. The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Crossin ): Senator Williams, I was just going to remind you of the matter under discussion. Senator WILLIAMS: Getting right back to the matter, Madam Acting Deputy President—I'm sure you're keen to hear what I have to say! The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator Williams; let's just focus. Senator WILLIAMS: Back to small business. The biggest thing that is— Government senators interjecting— Senator WILLIAMS: I'm trying to focus, Madam Acting Deputy President—directly at you! The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Senator WILLIAMS: Getting back to small business: the biggest thing that is lacking is confidence. You talk to anyone. I went for a walk in my home town a couple of weeks ago, down the street talking to small businesses. The thing that is lacking is confidence. And why is confidence lacking? Why aren't people spending? Because they do not trust the government. They do not trust them when they have broken promises on adding costs to small business, on bringing in new taxes—and there is a list of new taxes. They do not trust the government on managing money. I had a look at the Australian Office of Financial Management website on Friday: the debt is now $241 billion—it has grown $3 billion in just two weeks! Fourteen days and we have borrowed $3 billion. Now, who is going to pay for that? As we know, and as Senator Ryan said, the nation's wealth is derived through the business sector. Governments do not have money; they have sold off all the assets—now governments, sadly, just have debt. So that is where the nation's wealth is derived from: the business sector. And who is the greatest employer? The small-business sector. But this government is hell-bent on destroying small business, adding more costs to them. I will quote from the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry survey. Mr Greg Evans, Director of Economics and Industry Policy of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, commented: The Survey clearly shows that trading conditions remain challenging for Australian businesses in non-mining related sectors, with small businesses reporting the worst performance. … … … It is alarming that important small business growth indicators, including sales revenue, selling prices, profit growth and investment in plant and equipment, are approaching their historical low levels previously recorded during the height of the global financial crisis … … … Small businesses are concerned that while their selling prices have fallen to record low levels, their input costs remained elevated. While growth in labour costs has slowed in recent quarters, these costs remained at high levels and have resulted in a further fall in small business employment … small business are likely to face further headwinds in coming months due to the continued economic and political uncertainties in Europe, the slowdown in China and subdued consumer sentiment. … … … Against this difficult backdrop, it is disappointing that the government has imposed further cost increases on small business with the introduction of the carbon tax, which is now particularly impacting on the more energy-intensive business operations. Small business is the heart of our nation. There is not a large business that did not commence as a small business. They worked hard and they grew. But what we are seeing now— Senator Birmingham: Now large businesses are being turned into small businesses! Senator WILLIAMS: Exactly! I take your interjection, Senator Birmingham. That is how big businesses got big—they started off small and they grew big; now we are seeing big businesses winding back. We are seeing record liquidations and insolvencies. Why is that? We hear about this booming economy. The biggest issue is the lack of confidence. Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting— Senator WILLIAMS: As I said, people do not trust this government. They do not trust you with your promises on your carbon tax. They do not trust you to manage money. They do not trust you to run the economy. All you know is borrow, borrow, spend, spend, waste, waste. They do not trust you to build school buildings, they do not trust you to put Pink Batts in buildings. You spent a billion and a half putting Pink Batts in and another billion pulling them out! There's two and half billion of taxpayers' money gone. And here is the problem that small business is facing: extra costs of doing business. You go out and talk to them. I challenge any one of you: come with me for a stroll through a country town. Stick your head in the door of a small business and say, 'Hello, I'm a Labor senator. I've come to see how business is.' You would want to be wearing a hard-hat, because I know what the small businesses think of you lot. I know exactly what they think of you: they don't trust you, they know you don't care about them and that is why, every time I walk into a small business, they say, 'When is the election? Bring it on as soon as you can; we want to have a say', especially in the seat of New England, where we saw our federal member, Mr Windsor—I live in his seat—have his rant and rave the other day, saying Mr Abbott would bring in a carbon tax. What a joke. Mr Abbott would not bring in a carbon tax. It is a big 'if' anyway—that word 'if'. If the dog didn't stop for a little squat, he'd have caught the fox. That word 'if' means a fair bit. So the situation is this: if you cripple small business, you cripple the wealth-building sector of our nation—and that is exactly what you intend to do, and that is why they don't trust you. (Time expired) The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Senator Williams, your time has definitely expired. Senator Thistlethwaite.