Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Australia—Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Science and Research and Leader of the Government in the Senate) (14:01): I thank Senator Abetz for the question. I do not know whether those are exactly accurate remarks but I suspect they are, and I did have great pleasure in abolishing the Pacific solution. I continue to have the view that the approach taken with the Pacific solution, as with putting terrible conditions on people through TPVs, as with making people pay for their detention, was punitive and wrong. I think that is the wrong approach. Having had a chance to look at the Houston report today as I was travelling— Senator Cormann: I remember you saying offshore processing was wrong. Senator CHRIS EVANS: Senator Cormann, do you want to have a go? I am happy to point the finger at you again, Senator Cormann. The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Cormann and Senator Evans. Interjections are disorderly. Senator CHRIS EVANS: As I was saying, it was a regime based on punishment and trying to convince people that if you hurt them they would stop coming. Having read the Houston report, it recommends a very different approach. I had the pleasure of talking to Paris Aristotle— Opposition senators interjecting— The PRESIDENT: Order! Senator Evans, you just might resume your seat. It might be much easier. Senator CHRIS EVANS: I had the advantage of talking to Mr Paris Aristotle, a member of the Houston review, this morning. He pointed out to me the very strong differences in approach in terms of using Nauru and Manus Island for the detention of people seeking asylum. I just make this point: the Pacific solution was premised on a belief that you should tell people they could not possibly resettle in Australia and to leave them to rot as a signal. That is not the approach that has been recommended here and it is not the approach in the legislation. (Time expired)