Mr LAURIE FERGUSON (Werriwa) (16:34): I have heard today contributions on this MPI from the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Cook, whose life experience and domicile are far distant from where these problems are happening. As a person who has represented for almost a quarter of a century the region where many of these events are occurring; as a person who has a staff member whose close relative moved out of their house, traumatised by a person being shot in the head in front of their house; as a person whose maiden speech in New South Wales politics was on gun laws; as a person who often congratulated a previous Prime Minister, John Howard, for his historic work on this effort; and as a person who has watched in recent years as New South Wales politics has degenerated into deals with the gun lobby because of their control of the upper house in that state, I very much resent today's contributions. They are contributions of histrionics, political opportunism of the worst order and rank hypocrisy. We have all these 'experts' here today. Why do they know so much about this? They know so much about this because there has been effective policing in the last few days, with cooperation between state and federal police having uncovered this conspiracy. They were not here weeks ago saying to us that we had a massive national crisis, being the importation of illegal arms. I cannot recall them coming in here and asking this House to debate an MPI about these issues. When the opposition spokesman talked about the disappearance of 11 jobs in Customs, I did not hear him raise this as a serious matter. But back then I heard an ABC program talking about a very significant problem in this country, the theft of guns internally, and saying that many guns are disappearing from various rifle range clubs et cetera. So here today we have all this 'expertise' that the problems of western Sydney's gun homicides and shootings are about the importation of illegal arms—after we have watched the New South Wales opposition deliberately not politicise this matter. For months on end, people in the area where I live have watched and waited for some action by the New South Wales Police Force, but the opposition leader in our state has not been out there criticising the police minister over a task force raid last week by 101 police personnel that picked up, I think, four people. We have been patient, knowing that there must be a proper investigation of these matters. One would think from those experts over there that it was so simple. If you look at what has happened, we have an Austrian company, a gun dealer in Germany and a very sophisticated operation which broke down the arms and imported the various components separately. To think that this is a simple matter that relates to the reduction of 11 SES positions in Customs is preposterous. It is, as I say, rank hypocrisy to come in here today worrying about these shootings in Western Sydney. We have heard nothing from the spokesman opposite or any member of the opposition in the months leading up to this. We have a situation where, as many speakers have indicated, those opposite are crying today about the disappearance of 11 jobs and, at the same time, they are talking about a $70 billion deficit. The opposition leader is making some statement today in which he is going to guarantee that this area is going to be quarantined. Are they going to make a quarantine next week for education and health? This is ridiculous. Why wasn't that quarantine made in the weeks leading up to this point if it was so important? If this matter is related to gun crime in Sydney, why didn't you make that commitment before today? It is only when you are pressed about the realities of the reduction in the workforce in the public service. In the weeks leading up to this, the opposition leader referred back to the efforts of his great and glorious leader, John Howard. We know that that model led to the reduction of 30,000 jobs in this country. And they say that somehow this matter is the end of Western civilisation. The member for Cook made the comment, 'Our record is a fact.' The other aspect of this issue of course is border protection. What those opposite are trying to do here is connect the gun issue with the border protection issue, but they are a bit embarrassed by what has happened on that front in the last week or so. The foreign affairs spokesman for once left off the juvenile performances we have seen from her. For instance, in the Maldives a few weeks ago, people who were fighting for democracy were being bashed in the street, and she came in and related that to internal problems in the Labor Party. She has not made a comment on the situation in Syria. Now she is trying to persuade the Indonesians that the opposition leader did not really mean what he said about the coalition's immigration policies on border protection. 'Don't take any notice of what Tony Abbott says. After all, after he is elected as Prime Minister, he is going to go to Indonesia.' Let us worry about our relationship now. We have a situation where, as the foreign minister said yesterday, one of the tasks he has set himself is making sure the Australian people understand the fundamental importance of our relationship with Indonesia, the largest democracy in the Islamic world, the largest Islamic country. I was recently up there on a delegation and one of the points the Indonesians made to us was that we are a model of democracy that can be influential in the Arab world. During the Arab Spring they need models; they need examples. The Indonesians said that, 'We, unlike you in Australia, unlike the Americans and Canadians, cannot really influence how that is going.' That country is important internationally, it is a model for the Islamic world with regard to democracy— Mr Danby: Important to Australia too. Mr LAURIE FERGUSON: And it is important to Australia. In the past week the opposition foreign affairs spokeswoman had to go and try to persuade the Indonesians by saying, 'It is not really going to be a situation where they are going to tow the boats back. Don't worry about it. You do not have to cop all the problem.' Mr Danby: It's just for the Daily Telegraph. Mr LAURIE FERGUSON: 'It is just for the Daily Telegraph and the Herald Sun that we are saying these things. We don't really mean it.' The Indonesian ambassador somehow was not fooled. People who have observed him over a period of time know of his sophisticated knowledge in this area. On the other hand, Indonesia is a democratic country. But in the last few weeks we have also seen some of the conditions in their detention centres, which are—as is the nature of Indonesia—being investigated by their police force. The opposition says that we should not make any undertakings with Malaysia because they have not signed international conventions. But, they say, 'We will send boats full of refugee claimants back to Indonesia,' which has not signed either. This same opposition says that Malaysia is so dreadful, yet Anwar Ibrahim, a major opposition leader, can have a court case and be exonerated in their judicial system. We have seen liberalisation of their political processes recently. We cannot make a deal with them to try to reduce the number of boats coming to this country because this opposition wants more boats. Despite this rhetoric, they want more boats and they want more claimants. They want more pictures of boats every day of the week. I have made this point before. The opposition immigration spokesman, the member for Cook, says: 'Malaysia is so dreadful. Yes, we did like sending them to Nauru when they were not signatories, but Malaysia is so dreadful.' In the past, he rushed around the place, trying to get the phone number of the Iranian ambassador to see whether he could negotiate to send them back to Iran. So it is wrong to send people to Malaysia but Iran is all right. This border protection policy of those opposite has recently been condemned by the European Court of Human Rights. Antonio Guterres, the former President of Portugal and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, made this comment about their policies: We have clearly opposed pushbacks in the Italian case in the Mediterranean in the recent past before the Libyan crisis, and we think that that is clearly a violation in relation to the '51 Convention. The policy of those opposite is going nowhere except for facing the Indonesians with the crisis of accommodating large numbers of people if they actually truthfully do board boats. When the member for Cook talks about his record being a fact, part of his record is that, under their regime, of the 173 vessels they intercepted they actually managed to board 12. But the other part of the problem, which the Australian people are aware of, is that when they do board those 12 vessels the personnel involved face grave dangers. This week a constituent who was part of that was talking to me about the recognition they should get for their service. We have had a variety of military and ex-military personnel tell us, in very grave terms, of the dangers they face. The Northern Territory coroner found in 2010: It was apparently these fears that sparked a plan to burn the vessel to prevent its return to Indonesia. A fire would also necessitate rescue of the passengers by the— Australian Defence Force— and their transfer to an Australian vessel. That is the reality. Those opposite have a policy that is going to insult the Indonesians and break down a crucial relationship for this country. It is going to ignore a real possibility of reducing the number of boats that come to this country by negotiated agreement with a country that we respect, Malaysia. They are going to condemn many of the people they are supposedly so concerned about and crying about these days to Indonesian detention centres which are going to be overcrowded, the state of which has led to a police investigation by the Indonesians in the last week.