Senator LUDWIG (Queensland—Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Manager of Government Business in the Senate and Minister Assisting the Attorney-General on Queensland Floods Recovery) (14:00): The challenge for those on the other side is to ensure that we do two things in relation to the live animal export industry: first of all, ensure animal welfare outcomes when the cattle go to export markets and, second, ensure we have a system in place that provides supply chain assurance. 'Supply chain assurance' means that we can trace, have independent verification and particularly have an auditing system in place. Those on the other side are stuck on two things: one is a closed loop system or something like a closed loop system and the second is an abattoir which might meet a particular standard. It is important that they do have a supply chain assurance in place. In terms of whether I was aware of particular systems being in place, the crux of the matter is: is there supply chain assurance in place with traceability, transparency and an accounting and verification process? If you adopted the policy of those on the other side, you would be sending cattle cruelly to markets without any assurance that they are— Senator Brandis: Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. The minister was asked whether before making his decision he was aware of a fact. He has not addressed that issue either directly or indirectly. Senator Conroy: Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Ludwig was absolutely answering the question. He still has 29 seconds to complete his answer. There is tedious repetition. Senator Brandis's repeated points of order should be dismissed out of hand. The PRESIDENT: Senator Ludwig, you have 29 seconds remaining. I draw your attention to the question. Senator LUDWIG: The challenge is for those on the other side. There is no supply chain assurance in place for cattle leaving Australia, going into feedlots in Indonesia and going from feedlots into abattoirs that provides for traceability, accountability and independent auditing. (Time expired)